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Avodah Zarah 40

AVODAH ZARAH 40 (20 Nisan) - Today's Daf has been sponsored by Martin Fogel of Carlsbad, California in memory of his father, Yaakov ben Shlomo Fogel, on the day of his Yahrzeit.


(a) (Mishnah): Tiryas that is not diced.
(b) (Beraisa): Tiryas is not considered diced if the head and spine are recognizable;
1. Brine in which there is a fish - this is when a Kilbis (Rashi - a small Tamei fish; R. Chananel - a Tahor fish) or two are swimming in it. (This is a sign that the brine is from Tahor fish.)
(c) Question: If it is permitted when one is inside, there is no need to say when two are inside!
(d) Answer: An open barrel must have two, a closed barrel is permitted with one (Rashi; Tosfos - vice-versa).
(e) (Rav Huna): The head and spine must be recognizable.
(f) (Rav Nachman): The head *or* spine must be recognizable.
(g) Question (Rav Ukva - Mishnah): Any fish with fins and scales is permitted (implying, there are no other (Tosfos - external) signs of Kashrus)!
(h) Answer (Abaye): Ara and Falmuda (two species of Tahor fish) are only permitted by seeing their fins and scales, for their heads resemble those of Tamei fish.
(i) (Rav Yehudah): Rav Huna and Rav Nachman only argue about the brine, both agree that the fish itself is forbidden unless the head and spine are both recognizable.
(j) R. Zeira: I used to eat the brine even if only the head or spine was recognizable (I thought that they only argued about the fish itself) - now that I heard Rav Yehudah's teaching, I will not!
(k) (Rav Papa): The Halachah is, the head and spine of every fish must be recognizable.
(l) Question (Beraisa): If some (or even one) fish pieces have a sign of Kashrus, all the pieces are permitted;
1. A case occurred, a Nochri brought a barrel of pieces; one had a sign of Kashrus, R. Shimon ben Gamliel permitted all of them.
(m) Answer (Rav Papa): The pieces were recognizably all from the same fish.
(n) Question: If so, obviously they are permitted!
(o) Answer: One might have thought, we are concerned that by coincidence, they appear to all be from the same fish, but really are not - the Beraisa teaches, we are not concerned.
(p) A boat laden with Chilak came to Sichra. Rav Huna bar Chinena saw scales on the walls of the boat, he permitted the Chilak.
(q) Rava: We must be concerned that some of the fish are Tamei!
1. Rava forbade what Rav Huna bar Chinena had permitted.
(r) (R. Yirmeyah of Difti citing Rav Papi): Rav Huna bar Chinena only permitted the brine, not the fish itself.
(s) (Rav Ashi citing Rav Papa): Rav Huna even permitted the fish.
1. Rav Ashi: I will not forbid the fish, because I heard from Rav Papa that they are permitted;
2. I will not permit (even the brine), for Rav Yehudah said that Rav Huna and Rav Nachman argue about the brine, the fish may not be eaten unless its head and spine are recognizable.
(a) (Rav Chinena bar Idi): A Nochri brought a boat of barrels of brine, one barrel had Kilbis in it (one or two, enough to permit it) - all the open barrels are permitted (we assume, they had Kilbis, it jumped out), closed barrels (without Kilbis) are forbidden.
(b) Question (Rav Ada bar Ahavah): How do you know this?
(c) Answer (Rav Chinena): I have three great sources - Rav, Shmuel and R. Yochanan.
(d) (Rav Berona): Fish innards and fish eggs may only be bought from a Mumcheh (Rashi - one who is skilled to discern; Ramban - reliable Yisrael).
(e) Question (Ula): This implies that we are concerned that the eggs may be from a Tamei fish;
1. Tamei fish give birth to fish, they do not lay eggs!
(f) Answer #1 (R. Dosta'i d'Min Biri): We must delete 'fish eggs' from Rav Berona's teaching.
(g) Answer #2 (R. Zeira): The teaching is correct - Tamei fish also lay eggs, just their eggs hatch inside the mother, Tahor eggs hatch outside the mother.
1. Question: Why must fish eggs be bought from a Mumcheh - one can check the signs!
2. (Beraisa): The signs of Tahor fish are like the signs of Tahor eggs.
3. Objection: That cannot be! The signs of Tahor fish are fins and scales!
4. Correction: Rather, the signs of Tahor fish eggs are like the signs of Tahor eggs:
i. In Tahor eggs, one end is round, the other is pointy; In Tamei eggs, both ends are round or both are pointy.
ii. In Tamei eggs, the yolk is outside, the white is inside; in Tahor eggs, the yolk is inside, the white is outside.
iii. If the yolk and white are mixed together, this is a rodent's egg.
(h) Answer (Rava): The case is, the eggs are mashed, the signs cannot be checked.
(i) Question: R. Dosta'i deleted 'fish eggs' from the teaching because he says that Tamei fish do not lay eggs;

1. (Beraisa): The signs of Tahor fish eggs are like the signs of Tahor eggs...(implying that Tamei fish also have eggs)!
(j) Answer: The Beraisa did not say that, that was R. Zeira's correction;
1. R. Dosta'i can correct the Beraisa to say 'the signs of Tahor fish innards are like the signs of Tahor eggs...'
2. Question: If so, it says that in Tahor innards, one end is round, the other is pointier - where do we find this?!
3. Answer: In the bladder of a fish.
(k) Question: If there is no Mumcheh, what should one do?
(l) Answer #1 (Rav Yehudah): If the seller says 'I salted them myself', one may rely on him (he would be afraid to lie).
(m) Answer #2 (Rav Nachman): The seller must say 'These are the fish, these are the innards'.
1. Rav Yehudah authorized Ada Daila to rely on a seller who says 'I salted them myself'.
(a) (Mishnah): A leaf of Chiltis.
(b) Question: Obviously, this is permitted!
(c) Answer: The Mishnah permits even small pieces attached to the leaves (Ran; Rashi - or in the vessel);
1. Version #1 (Rashi): One might have thought, we are concerned that the Nochri cut them with his knife - the Mishnah teaches, this is not so, we assume that they fell off with the leaves.
2. Version #2 (Ran): One might have thought, we are concerned that the Nochri cut them with his knife - the Mishnah teaches, this is not so, for if so they would not cling to the leaves.
(d) (Mishnah): Clumps of soft olives.
(e) Question: Obviously, this is permitted!
(f) Answer: The case is, they are very soft;
1. One might have thought, this is because wine was put on them - the Mishnah teaches, this is not so (their oil made them soft).
(g) (Mishnah): R. Yosi says, Shelachin (olives) are forbidden.
(h) Question: What are Shelachin?
(i) Answer (R. Yosi bar Chanina): One holds it with one hand, and the pit comes out.
(j) (Mishnah): Grasshoppers from...
(k) (Beraisa): Grasshoppers, caper fruits and leeks from the storehouse, pile or boat are permitted,
1. Those sold in the market in front of the vendor are forbidden, because they sprinkle wine on them.
(l) Similarly - apple wine of Nochrim from the storehouse, pile or basket it is permitted,
1. What is sold in the market in front of the vendor is forbidden, because they mix wine with it.
(m) (Beraisa): Rebbi had a stomach ache; he asked if anyone knew whether or not apple wine of Nochrim is permitted.
1. R. Yishmael b'Rebbi Yosi: Once my father had a stomach ache; they brought him 70 year old apple wine of Nochrim, it cured him.
2. Rebbi found a Nochri with 300 barrels of 70 year old apple wine, it cured him. He praised Hash-m for His Providence.
(n) (Mishnah): And similarly regarding Terumah.
(o) Question: What does this mean?
(p) Answer (Rav Sheshes): Similarly, if a Kohen is suspected of selling Terumah in the guise of Chulin, what is in front of him is forbidden;
1. What he takes from the storehouse, pile or basket is permitted - he would not bring Terumah, lest Chachamim find out and make it all Hefker.


(a) (Mishnah - R. Meir): All images are forbidden, because they are served once a year;
(b) Chachamim say, the only forbidden images are those holding a staff, bird or ball;
(c) R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, any image holding anything is forbidden.
(d) (Gemara) Question: If they are served once a year, why do Chachamim permit them?
(e) Answer (R. Yitzchak bar Yosef): In R. Meir's region, all images were served once a year;
1. R. Meir is concerned for the minority, he decrees in all places on account of his place;
2. Chachamim are not concerned for the minority, they do not decree in other places.
(f) Version #1 - Rashi - Answer #2 (Rav Yehudah): R. Meir and Chachamim argue about statues of kings.
(g) Version #2 - Tosfos - Answer #2 (Rav Yehudah): The Mishnah discusses statues of kings (and Chachamim permit them if they are not holding anything).
(h) Version #3 - Rashba - Answer #2 (Rav Yehudah): They argue about statues (R. Meir forbids every statue, lest it is a statue of a king, even though this is the minority, Chachamim are not concerned unless it holds something). (End of Version #3)
1. (Rabah bar bar Chanah): The case is, the statues are at the entrance to the city.
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