POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Avodah Zarah 51
1) HOW MUCH MUST THE AVODAH RESEMBLE AVODAS PANIM? (Cont.)
(a) Suggestion: Tana'im argue about Rav Yehudah's law.
2) AVODAS PANIM TO IDOLATRY
1. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): If one slaughtered a
grasshopper in front of (Rashi - any idolatry;
Tosfos - an idolatry to which grasshoppers are
offered), he is liable;
(b) Rejection: No, all agree that one is liable only for what
truly resembles Avodas Panim (unlike Rav Yehudah);
2. Chachamim say, he is exempt.
3. Suggestion: R. Yehudah obligates because this
resembles slaughter, likewise he would obligate for
breaking a stick; Chachamim say, this only slightly
resembles slaughter, one is liable only for what
truly resembles Avodas Panim.
1. R. Yehudah obligates for a grasshopper, for its neck
resembles that of an animal (but if one breaks a
stick, he is exempt).
(c) (Rav Nachman citing Rabah bar Avuha): An idolatry that is
served with a stick:
1. If one breaks a stick in front of it, he is Chayav
Misah and the stick is forbidden;
(d) Question (Ravina): Breaking a stick forbids the stick,
for this is like slaughter - also throwing is like
2. If he threw a stick in front of it (and it is
normally served this way), he is liable, the stick
(e) Answer (Rav Nachman): Only throwing something that splits
up forbids the article.
(f) Question (Rava): If so, how do stones thrown to Markulis
(g) Answer (Rav Nachman citing Rav): They are like additions
to Markulis, they are forbidden like idolatry.
(h) Question: This is according to the opinion that idolatry
of a Nochri is forbidden even before it is worshipped;
1. According to the opinion that idolatry of a Nochri
is not forbidden until it is worshipped, it should
(i) Answer #1: When the next rock was thrown, this is Avodah
to all the previous rocks.
1. Question (Rava): If so, the last rock thrown should
(j) Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): When each rock is thrown, this is
Avodah to *itself and* all the previous rocks, even it
2. Answer (Rav Nachman): Yes, but you do not know which
was thrown last, so all are forbidden.
(k) (Mishnah): If garments, coins or vessels were found on
idolatry, they are permitted;
1. If grape clusters, wreaths of ears (of grain), wine,
oil, fine flour, or anything offered in the Mikdash
was found on it, they are forbidden.
(l) Question: We understand why wine, oil, and fine flour are
forbidden - they are brought in the Mikdash, when thrown
they split up;
1. But grape clusters and wreaths of ears are not
brought in the Mikdash, when thrown they do not
split up, they should be permitted!
(m) Answer (Rava): The case is, from the beginning they were
harvested to be offered to idolatry (therefore, the
harvesting is Avodah, it is like throwing that splits
(n) Question (R. Yochanan): What is the source to exempt one
who slaughters a Ba'al Mum (blemished animal) to
(o) Answer (R. Yochanan): "Zove'ach la'Elokim Yocharam Bilti
la'Sh-m Levado" - the Torah only forbids Avodah like that
in the Mikdash.
(p) Question (Rava): To what kind of Mum does he refer?
1. If he refers to a film in the eye - a Nochri may
offer such an animal to Hash-m on a Bamah, all the
more so he is liable for offering it to idolatry!
(q) Answer: Rather, he discusses an animal missing a limb.
1. Question (R. Elazar): What is the source that a
Nochri may not offer (to Hash-m) an animal missing a
2. Answer (R. Elazar): "Umi'Kol ha'Chai" - its limbs
must be Chayim (intact).
3. Question: That verse is needed to exclude a Treifah!
4. Answer: We exclude a Treifah from "Lechayos Zera".
5. Question: This is according to the opinion that a
Treifah cannot have children;
i. According to the opinion that a Treifah can
have children, how can we answer?
6. Answer: "Itecha" - the animals should resemble you
(No'ach, who was not (visibly) a Treifah).
7. Question: Perhaps No'ach was a Treifah!
8. Answer #1: This cannot be, the Torah calls him
i. Question: Perhaps it means, he was Tamim (pure)
in his ways!
9. Answer #2: The Torah would not say "Itecha", to
bring specifically animals that are Treifah!
ii. Answer: We know that from the fact that he is
called a Tzadik.
iii. Question: Perhaps it means, he was Tamim in his
ways and Tzadik in his deeds!
10. Question: Since "Itecha" excludes a Treifah, what do
we learn from "Lechayos Zera"?
11. Answer: Had it only said "Itecha", one might have
thought that the animals are merely for company,
sterilized or old animals unable to have offspring
are acceptable (Treifos are excluded, for they will
i. "Lechayos Zera" teaches that they must be able
to have offspring.
(a) Question (R. Elazar): What is the source that one who
slaughters an animal to Markulis is Chayav Misah?
(b) Answer (R. Elazar): "V'Lo Yizbechu Od Es Zivcheihem
1. If we do not need it to teach about the normal
Avodah of Markulis, which we learn from "Eichah
Ya'avdu...Es Eloheihem", we use it to teach about
(Avodas Panim that is) not its normal Avodah.
(c) Question: "V'Lo Yizbechu Od" teaches a different law!
3) THINGS PUT NEAR OR ON IDOLATRY
1. (Beraisa): "V'Lo Yizbechu" teaches about Korbanos
that were Hukdash and offered (outside the Mikdash)
when it is forbidden to offer on a Bamah (e.g.
before the Mishkan was built).
(d) Answer (Rava): We read the verse as if it said 'V'Lo
Yizbechu *v'Lo* Od', to teach this Lav and a Lav against
Avodas Panim to idolatry.
2. Question: "V'El Pesach Ohel Mo'ed Lo Hevi'o (he gets
Kares)" - where does the Torah warn not to do this?
3. Answer: "Pen Ta'aleh Olasecha";
i. (R. Avin): Wherever it says 'Hishamer', 'Pen'
or 'Al', this is a Lav.
4. The continuation of the verse discusses Korbanos
that were Hukdash when it was permitted to offer on
a Bamah and were offered (outside the Mikdash) after
this became forbidden - "Lema'an Asher
Yavi'u...Asher Hem Zovechim" - they were permitted
i. "Al Penei ha'Sadeh" - whoever slaughters on a
Bamah when it is forbidden is like one who
slaughters to idolatry;
ii. "Ve'Hevi'um la'Shem" - this is an Ase;
iii. We learn a Lav from "V'Lo Yizbechu Od Es
iv. Suggestion: Perhaps one is Chayav Kares for
v. Rejection: "Chukas Olam Tihyeh Zos Lahem" -
only this (when it was Hukdash when Bamos are
forbidden) is Chayav Kares.
(a) (Mishnah): If garments, coins or vessels were found on
idolatry, they are permitted;
4) BENEFITING IDOLATRY
1. If grape clusters, wreaths of ears, wine, oil, fine
flour, or anything offered in the Mikdash was found
on it, it is forbidden.
(b) (Gemara) Question: What is the source of this?
(c) Answer (R. Chiya bar Yosef) Contradiction: It says
"Shikutzeihem...Etz v'aEven Kesef v'Zahav Asher Imahem";
another verse says "Lo Sachmod Kesef v'Zahav Aleihem"!
1. Answer: What is Imahem (with, i.e. near idolatry) is
like what is Aleihem (on it);
(d) Question: Why not say, what is on it is like what is near
i. The Torah only forbids gold and silver on it,
i.e. Noy (things that beautify it) - likewise,
only Noy near it is forbidden!
1. The Torah only forbids everything near it, even
rocks and wood, which are not (normally) Noy -
likewise, things on it, even not for Noy, are
(e) Answer: If so, the Torah could have omitted it "Lo
Sachmod Kesef v'Zahav Aleihem" (having taught that
everything near it is forbidden, all the more so
everything on it is forbidden!
(f) Question: Coins are Noy, why does the Mishnah permit
(g) Answer (d'vei R. Yanai): They are in a bag tied around
the idol's neck (they are not Noy).
(h) Question: Garments are Noy, why does the Mishnah permit
(i) Answer (d'vei R. Yanai): They are folded and placed on
the idol's head (they are not Noy).
(j) Question: Vessels are Noy, why does the Mishnah permit
(k) Answer (d'vei R. Yanai): A wash basin is hanging on its
head (it is not Noy).
(l) (Rav Asi bar Chiya): Whatever is inside the curtain
(around the idolatry) is forbidden, even water or salt
(which are not for Noy, but they are Takroves, for they
are offered in the Mikdash);
1. Outside the curtain, only articles of Noy are
forbidden (Rashi - from the above verse "Etz
v'aEven...Asher Imahem"; Tosfos - it is Takroves).
(m) (R. Yosi bar Chanina): The Halachah is, curtains do not
apply to Ba'al Pe'or or Markulis.
(n) Question: What is their law?
1. Suggestion: Even within the curtains is considered
outside, only articles of Noy are forbidden.
(o) Answer: Even outside the curtains is considered inside,
even things that are not Noy are forbidden.
2. Rejection: Excreting in front of Pe'or is its
Avodah, can we say that water or salt are not
(a) (Mishnah): If there is a bathhouse or garden of idolatry,
one may benefit from it only if he does *not* give
5) WHEN DOES IDOLATRY BECOME FORBIDDEN?
1. If it belonged to idolatry and others, one may
benefit, he may give and (or) not give benefit.
(b) Idolatry of a Nochri is forbidden immediately, idolatry
of a Yisrael is permitted until it is worshipped.
(c) Version #1 (Gemara - Abaye): The Mishnah forbids
benefiting the priests of the idolatry;
1. It is permitted to benefit commoners who serve it.
(d) Version #2 (Abaye): The end of the Mishnah says, if it
belonged to idolatry and others, one may benefit, he may
give and not give benefit - this means, he may benefit
the others, he may not benefit the priests.
(e) Version #2 certainly agrees to the law of Version #1 - if
it is forbidden to benefit the priests even though they
are not the sole owners, all the more so when they are
the sole owners!
(f) Version #1 argues with the law of Version #2 - if it is
forbidden to benefit the priests only if they are the
sole owners, if they are not the sole owners, it is
(a) (Mishnah): Idolatry of a Nochri is forbidden immediately,
idolatry of a Yisrael is permitted until it is
(b) Our Mishnah is like R. Akiva.
1. (Beraisa - R. Yishmael): "Abed Te'abdun Es Kol
ha'Mekomos Asher Avdu Sham ha'Goyim" - this refers
to vessels used to serve idolatry.
i. Suggestion: Perhaps the vessels are forbidden
if they were made (for idolatry) but not yet
finished, if they were finished but not yet
brought to the idolatry, or if they were
brought but not yet used to serve.
2. R. Akiva says, just the contrary! Idolatry of a
Nochri is forbidden immediately, idolatry of a
Yisrael is permitted until it is worshipped.
ii. Rejection: "Asher *Avdu*" - they are not
forbidden until they are used to serve;
iii. This teaches that idolatry of a Nochri is not
forbidden until it is Ne'evad, idolatry of a
Yisrael is forbidden immediately.