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Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

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Avodah Zarah 59


(a) In Batzrah, Reish Lakish saw Yisraelim eating produce without tithing it; he forbid them to do this;
1. He saw them drink water which Nochrim had bowed to; he forbade this.
(b) R. Yochanan: Go retract immediately! Batzrah (is in Chutz la'Aretz, it) is not Betzer (the refuge city in Eretz Yisrael);
1. One cannot forbid public water.
(c) Question: This implies that if the same water was privately owned, one could forbid it - but it is attached to the ground!
(d) Answer: No, the case is it detached (e.g. in a vessel).
(e) Suggestion: In any case, this is like rocks of a mountain that were uprooted;
1. We should be able to deduce that R. Yochanan forbids them (if they were Ne'evadim - but he and Benei R. Chiya argued about this, and we could not resolve who forbade and who permitted)!
(f) Rejection: No, the case is, the Nochri took the water in his hands, this is not like rocks that were uprooted by themselves.
(g) R. Chiya bar Aba went to Gavla and saw three things - Benos Yisrael would become pregnant through Nochrim who were circumcised but did not yet immerse (to convert), Yisraelim would drink wine mixed by Nochrim, Yisraelim would eat lupines cooked by Nochrim.
1. He did not say anything to them; he told R. Yochanan, who told him to announce that their children are Mamzerim, their wine is (forbidden like) Yayin Nesech, and their lupines are forbidden as Bishul Akum because they are not Benei Torah.
(h) Their children are Mamzerim - this is as R. Yochanan taught elsewhere, a convert is a Nochri until circumcision and immersion;
1. (R. Yochanan): If a Nochri or slave had relations with a Bas Yisrael, the child is a Mamzer.
(i) Their wine is Yayin Nesech - on account of 'Lech Lech...'
(j) Inference: Their lupines are forbidden as Bishul Akum because they are not Benei Torah (if we permit them, they will treat Bishul Akum lightly) - but they are permitted to Benei Torah.
(k) Question: But Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak taught Bishul Akum does not apply to anything that can be eaten raw (lupines are not eaten raw, they should be forbidden to everyone)!
(l) Answer: R. Yochanan holds like a different teaching.
(m) (Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak): Bishul Akum does not apply to anything not fit for a king's table (lupines are not fit).
(a) Question: May a Nochri help a Yisrael carry grapes to the Gas?
(b) Answer (Rav Kahana): It is forbidden on account of 'Lech Lech...'
(c) Question (Rav Yemar - Beraisa): If a Nochri brought grapes to the Gas in baskets, even if the juice is flowing on the grapes, it is permitted.

(d) Answer (Rav Kahana): I agree that b'Diavad it is permitted, I only forbid l'Chatchilah.
(e) A Nochri's Esrog fell into a barrel of wine; he ran and stuck his hand in to retrieve it.
1. Rav Ashi (to Yisraelim): Hold his hand so he cannot shake it (and forbid benefit from the wine), and tilt the barrel so the wine will flow out (into another vessel - if the Nochri would remove the Esrog, even if Yisraelim were holding his hands, we would be concerned for Nisuch).
(f) (Rav Ashi): If a Nochri intentionally was Menasech Reuven's wine, Reuven may ask him for its full (initial) value.
(g) Question: Why is this (not like selling Yayin Nesech to him)?
(h) Answer: The Nochri forbade it to Reuven, it is as if he burned it, Reuven collects payment for damage.
(i) Support (Rav Ashi for himself - Beraisa): If a Nochri was Menasech Reuven's wine not in front of idolatry, it is forbidden;
(j) R. Yehudah ben Bava and R. Yehudah ben Beseira permit it for two reasons:
1. Nisuch is only done in front of idolatry;
2. No one else can forbid Reuven's wine against his will. (Rashi - this shows that Reuven is entitled to collect damages from him; Tosfos - if some Tana'im permit the wine, it is unlikely that other Tana'im are so stringent to forbid taking its value from the Nochri.)
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