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Avodah Zarah 70

AVODAH ZARAH 69-71 - Three Dafim have been sponsored through the generous grant of an anonymous donor in Flatbush, NY.


(a) (Rava): If Yisraelim were with a Nochris harlot (and there was wine of Yisraelim there), we are not concerned that they were (Rashi; Ran - allowed her to) Menasech;
1. Granted, the evil inclination for relations overcomes them, but the desire for Nisuch is not so great.
(b) If Nochrim were with a Yisraelis harlot, the wine is forbidden;
1. Since she is loose with them, she is drawn after their ways, we are concerned that she allowed them Lenasech.
(c) Reuven's wine was in a house; a Nochri entered and closed the door. There was a crack in the door, the Nochri could be seen between the barrels.
(d) (Rava): The barrels that can be seen through the crack are permitted (even to drink them), those outside the field of vision are forbidden (Rashi - to benefit from them (also in the coming cases); Ra'avad - to drink).
(e) Reuven's wine was in a house; a Nochri lived on the ground floor, a Yisrael in the second story. They heard a dispute and went outside to see; the Nochri returned and closed the door.
(f) (Rava): The wine is permitted - the Nochri suspects that the Yisrael returned first, he fears to touch the wine lest the Yisrael see him from above.
(g) Reuven's wine was in an inn; a Nochri was found near it.
(h) (Rava): If the Nochri has no permission to be there (and seemingly entered to steal) he is nervous, he would not touch the wine, it is permitted; if not, it is forbidden.
(i) Reuven's wine was in a house; a Nochri was found near it.
(j) (Rava): If the Nochri has an excuse why he is there, he is not afraid, it is forbidden; if not, it is permitted.
(k) Question (Beraisa): If an inn was locked (and a Nochri was alone with wine inside), or if a Yisrael asked him to guard the wine (from the outside), it is forbidden.
1. Suggestion: It is forbidden even if the Nochri has no excuse why he is there.
(l) Answer: No, the case is that he has an excuse.
(m) A Yisrael and a Nochri were drinking wine together; they heard people calling that it is time to pray in the Beis ha'Keneses, the Yisrael left.
(n) (Rava): The wine is permitted - at every moment, the Nochri is concerned that the Yisrael remembered that he left his wine and is returning for it.
(o) A Yisrael and a Nochri were drinking wine together on a boat; they heard the Shofar blasts signifying to stop working because Shabbos has come; the Yisrael went ashore.
(p) (Rava): The wine is permitted - at every moment, the Nochri is concerned that the Yisrael remembered his wine and is returning for it;
1. Nochrim think that Yisraelim do not observe Shabbos (if it will entail a loss).
2. (Isar the convert): When I was a Nochri, we used to say that Yisraelim do not observe Shabbos - if they did, many wallets would be found in the market (of Yisraelim who were on the road when Shabbos came, and are forbidden to carry their wallets home).
3. Nochrim do not know R. Yitzchak's law.
i. (R. Yitzchak): If one found a wallet (and picked it up before Shabbos, and there is not a Nochri, animal, deaf person, lunatic or child to carry it), on Shabbos he may carry it up to (but not including) four Amos at a time (i.e. after stopping, he may again carry it up to four Amos,...)
(q) A Nochri at the winepress heard a lion roar; he hid among the barrels.
(r) (Rava): The wine is permitted - he assumes that Yisraelim are also hiding, he is afraid to touch the wine.
(a) Thieves came to Pumbadisa and opened many barrels of wine; Rava permitted them.
(b) Question: What was his reason?
(c) Answer: Most thieves in Pumbadisa are Yisraelim (who are the vast majority of the residents).
(d) A similar case occurred in Neharda'a; Shmuel permitted the wine.
(e) Suggestion: This is like R. Eliezer.
1. (Mishnah - R. Eliezer): (There was Tum'ah in a certain field in a valley.) If Shimon entered the valley but does not know whether or not he entered that field, he is Tahor;
i. If he (knows that he entered that field, but is unsure whether or not he touched the Tum'ah) he is Tamei.
(f) Rejection: No, Shmuel permits because some thieves open barrels looking for valuables;
1. Shmuel permits because of a Sefek Sefeka (there are two doubts - perhaps a Yisrael opened the barrels; even if Nochri opened them, perhaps he only was seeking valuables, and when he saw that it was wine he did not touch it).

(g) A (Rashi - young) Nochris was found among barrels of wine, foam of wine was in her hand.
(h) (Rava): The wine is permitted - perhaps it came to her hand from the outside of the barrel;
1. Even if we do not see any other foam on the outside, perhaps she happened to touch the one place where there was foam.
(i) A general (and his army) came to Neharda'a; they opened many barrels of wine.
(j) (Rav Dimi): A similar case occurred (in Eretz Yisrael), R. Elazar permitted it;
1. I am unsure - perhaps this was because he holds like R. Eliezer (who is lenient regarding a doubt if the Tamei field was entered);
2. Or, perhaps it was because most soldiers that follow a general are Yisraelim.
3. Version #1 (Rashi) Question: (If the first answer assumes that most soldiers that follow a general are Nochrim, and we do not know whether the barrels were opened for drinking or in search of money,) this is not doubtful entering, rather, it is doubtful touching (even R. Eliezer is stringent)!
4. Answer: The case is, they opened more barrels than needed for drinking; presumably, most barrels were opened to look for valuables, therefore we are lenient.
5. Version #2 (Tosfos) Question: (The first answer considers the soldiers to be doubtful Nochrim -) R. Eliezer only permitted a Sefek Sefeka, here there is a single doubt (whether a Yisrael or Nochri touched)!
6. Answer: The case is, they opened more barrels than needed for drinking, therefore it is a Sefek Sefeka (like Shmuel's ruling above).
(a) A Yisraelis used to sell wine; she gave the keys to a Nochris to guard.
(b) (R. Yitzchak): A case occurred, Rabanan said that the Nochris was entrusted only with the keys (she has no excuse to be near the wine, therefore she is afraid to touch).
(c) Support (Abaye - Mishnah): A Chaver (who is careful about Tum'ah) gave his keys to an ignoramus to guard - the Chaver's Taharos are still Tahor, for the ignoramus was entrusted only with the keys (he has no excuse to touch the Taharos).
1. If the Taharos are still Tahor, all the more so the wine should be permitted!
(d) Inference: This implies that we are more stringent regarding Taharos than regarding Yayin Nesech.
(e) Confirmation: Yes; we may also derive this from Rav.
1. (Rav): If a Mesifas (Rashi - a low fence; Aruch - a fence with windows) divided a Chatzer, and a Chaver put Taharos on his side (and an ignoramus lives on the other side), they are (assumed to be) Teme'im;
2. (R. Yochanan): They are Tehorim.
3. Question (against Rav - Beraisa): If a Chaver lives in a Chatzer whose only exit to Reshus ha'Rabim is through the Chatzer of an ignoramus, he may put Taharos near the border of the Chatzeros, even if the ignoramus could reach them (and they are Tehorim).
4. Answer (Rav): There is different, the ignoramus will not touch them, for he has no excuse to enter the Chaver's Chatzer, if he would reach over, it would appear that he wants to steal.
5. Question (against R. Yochanan - Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Gamliel): If a Chaver's roof is adjacent to and higher than his neighbor's (an ignoramus), he may not put Taharos there unless they are out of the reach of his neighbor.
6. Answer (R. Yochanan): That case is different, his neighbor has an excuse to reach over, he could say that he was measuring (Me'iri - testing the sturdiness of) the roof (Aruch - he could say that he was stretching)!
7. Question (against Rav - Beraisa): If a Chaver's roof is adjacent to his neighbor's (an ignoramus), he may put Taharos on it, even within his neighbor's reach.
8. Answer (Rav): Tana'im argue about this, I hold like R. Shimon ben Gamliel.
(a) (Mishnah): If an army entered a city in peacetime, open barrels of wine are forbidden, closed barrels are permitted;
(b) In wartime, all are permitted because they do not have time to Menasech.
(c) (Gemara - Mishnah) Contradiction: If an army besieging a city conquered the city, all wives of Kohanim are forbidden to their husbands (perhaps they were raped).
(d) Answer (Rav Mari): Soldiers do not have time to Menasech, but they find time to rape (because they have a greater desire for this).
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