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Avodah Zarah 72

AVODAH ZARAH 72-76 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.


(a) Reuven told Shimon 'If I sell this land, it will be to you'; Shimon made a Kinyan Chalipin. Reuven sold it to Levi.
(b) (Rav Yosef): Shimon acquires it.
(c) Objection (Abaye): He was not Posek!
1. Question: What is the source that one does not acquire before Pesikah?
2. Answer (Mishnah): If a Yisrael sells wine to a Nochri:
i. If he Pasak before he measured out the wine, the money is permitted;
ii. If he measured out the wine before he was Posek, the money is forbidden.
(d) Question: What was the conclusion?
1. Objection: The Mishnah proves that the Halachah follows Abaye!
2. Answer: Perhaps normally, one can acquire before Pesikah; it is a stringency of Yayin Nesech to say that he does not acquire.
(e) Answer (Rav Idi bar Avin): A case occurred, Rav Huna ruled according to the following Beraisa:
1. (Beraisa): If Reuven's donkey-drivers or workers were carrying produce, and Shimon (who wants to buy) took them into his house, if they were Posek *or* measured the produce (but not both), either party can retract. (Taking workers into one's house is not Meshichah (while they are laden with the produce), both Meshichah and Pesikah are needed.)
2. If Reuven or Shimon unloaded it and brought it into Shimon's house:
i. If they were Posek even without measuring, neither party can retract (unloading counts like Meshichah);
ii. If they measured but were not Posek, either party can retract.
(f) Yehudah told David 'If I sell this land, it will be to you, for 100 Zuz'; David made a Kinyan. Yehudah sold it to Moshe for 120.
(g) (Rav Kahana): David acquires it.
(h) Objection (R. Yakov of Nehar Pekod): Yehudah meant, if I *choose* to sell it for the proper price;
1. Surely, he sold it for a higher price because he was under (financial) duress!
(i) The Halachah follows R. Yakov.
(j) If Reuven said 'I sell this land to you, (the price will be) as three people estimate it' - if two of the three agree, that is the price (since he insisted on three, and mentioned *estimating*, he intends that they should be like Beis Din);
(k) If he said 'As three people *will say*', all three must agree on the price.
(l) If he said 'As four people estimate it', all four people must agree (since he insisted on four, he does not intend for a Beis Din, he wants many opinions), all the more so if he said 'As four people will say'.
(m) (Rav Papa): If Reuven said 'As three people estimate it', and three estimated it, Shimon (the buyer) can insist on getting three different people who know the price better.
(n) Objection (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): Why should he be able to do so - perhaps the first three know the price better!
(o) The Halachah follows Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua.
(a) (Mishnah): If a Yisrael took a funnel and measured wine into a Nochri's flask, and then measured into a Yisrael's:
1. If a drop of wine could remain in the funnel (there is a place it could get caught), the wine in the Yisrael's flask is forbidden;
(b) If one pours from one vessel into another, the wine left in the top vessel is permitted, that in the bottom vessel is forbidden.
(c) (Gemara - Mishnah): Nitzuk (a stream of water falling through the air), Ketarfes (water flowing down an incline), or Tofe'ach (something wet enough to wet a hand that touches it) is not considered touching, neither Letamei (e.g. if the bottom is Tamei and the top is Tahor) or Letaher (Rashi - for them to join to make a Mikveh; Ramban - to Metaher water by touching it to a Mikveh);
1. Ashboren (a collection of water) is considered connected Letamei and Letaher.
(d) (Rav Huna): Nitzuk, Ketarfes and Tofe'ach are connections regarding Yayin Nesech (it is as if the Nochri also touched the top liquid).
(e) Objection (Rav Nachman): What is the your source?
1. Suggestion: You infer from the Mishnah, Nitzuk, Ketarfes and Tofe'ach are not connections for Tum'ah and Taharah, but they are regarding Yayin Nesech.
2. Rejection (end of the Mishnah): Ashboren is considered connected Letamei and Letaher.
i. You should likewise infer that it is not connected regarding Yayin Nesech (but this is unreasonable)!
(f) Conclusion: You cannot infer your law from the Mishnah.
(g) Support (for Rav Huna - Mishnah): If a Yisrael took a funnel and measured wine into a Nochri's flask, and then measured into a Yisrael's:

1. If there is a place for a drop of wine to remain in the funnel, the wine in the Yisrael's flask is forbidden.
2. Suggestion: The drop is forbidden on account of Nitzuk (when pouring into the Nochri's (which probably was not clean), a flow of wine connected the funnel to drops of Yayin Nesech remaining at the bottom) - this shows that Nitzuk is a connection regarding Yayin Nesech!
(h) Rejection (R. Chiya): No, the case is, the wine in the flask reached the bottom of the funnel.
(i) Inference: R. Chiya had to establish the Mishnah in this way because Nitzuk is not a connection!
(j) Rejection: No - he established it this way because he was sure that if the wine reached the bottom of the funnel, this would forbid the residue;
1. He was not sure whether or not Nitzuk is a connection.
(k) Support (for Rav Huna - Mishnah): If one pours from one vessel into another, the wine left in the top vessel is permitted.
1. Inference: The wine in midair is forbidden, because Nitzuk connects it (to Yayin Nesech in the bottom vessel).
(l) Objection: If so, also the wine in the top vessel should be forbidden!
(m) Answer: No, the case is, he interrupted the flow (so there was never a stream connecting the two vessels).
1. The inference remains, the wine in midair is forbidden, because Nitzuk connects it (to Yayin Nesech in the bottom vessel).
(n) Question (end of the Mishnah): The bottom vessel is forbidden.
1. Inference: The wine in midair is permitted, i.e. Nitzuk is not a connection!
(o) Conclusion: The inferences contradict one another, we cannot determine which is correct, the Mishnah neither supports nor refutes Rav Huna.
(p) Support (for Rav Huna - Beraisa): If one pours a barrel of wine into a pit (of wine), all the wine outside the barrel (i.e. the wine in midair) is forbidden.
(q) Rejection (Rav Sheshes): (It is not forbidden because it is connected to Yayin Nesech in the pit; rather,) the case is, a Nochri pours, this forbids it. (We can also establish the end of our Mishnah (if one pours from one vessel into another, the top vessel is permitted, the bottom vessel is forbidden) in this way.)
(r) Question: If so, even the wine in the barrel should be forbidden!
(s) Answer: A Nochri's Ko'ach (if he moves wine without touching it) is forbidden mid'Rabanan;
1. Chachamim only decreed about the wine that left the barrel.
(a) Rav Chisda (to wine sellers): When you pour wine into a Nochri's vessel, interrupt the flow, or throw the wine from afar (so a stream will never connect your vessel to his)
(b) Rava (to people who pour wine): Do not allow Nochrim to help you, perhaps you will let go and he will pour alone, his Ko'ach will forbid the wine.
(c) A man was siphoning wine from a barrel using two connected reeds (in a bent shape; after sucking the wine so it begins to flow, all the wine will flow out by itself). A Nochri put his hand on the bottom, stopping the flow; Rava forbade all the wine, even what remained in the barrel.
(d) Rav Papa: Do you forbid (Ramban - even benefit from the wine) on account of Nitzuk?
(e) Rejection: No - this is unlike regular Nitzuk - all the wine would have flowed out of the reeds, they are like an extension of the barrel.
(f) (Mar Zutra brei d'Rav Nachman): It is permitted to drink from Kenishkenin (a vessel with pipes exuding for people to drink from it) at the same time as a Nochri. (Even though wine that touches the Nochri's lips is forbidden, Nitzuk (R. Tam; Ra'avad - of this kind, where the Yisrael drinks wine from a separate pipe) is not a connection.)
1. This is provided that the Yisrael stops drinking first - once the Nochri stops, it is forbidden (the forbidden wine returns to the vessel and mixes with all the wine).
(g) Version #1: Rabah bar Rav Huna permitted the Reish Galusa to drink from Kenishkenin (at the same time as a Nochri; R. Chananel - with a Yisrael, it is not forbidden on account of (mourning over) the Churban. (But it is forbidden to drink with a Nochri, either because Nitzuk is a connection, or lest the Nochri will stop drinking first)).
(h) Version #2: Rabah bar Rav Huna himself drank from Kenishkenin.
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