ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Avodah Zarah 69
AVODAH ZARAH 69-71 - Three Dafim have been sponsored through the generous
grant of an anonymous donor in Flatbush, NY.
(a) We ask what the Din will be if a mouse falls into a barrel of vinegar.
The Din there might be more lenient than the previous case (where it fell
into a barrel of wine) - because beer has a more sharp taste, and perhaps
the mouse will not affect its taste significantly.
(b) Rav Hillel cited such a case that occurred by Rav Kahana, who forbade
it. Rav Ashi retorted that that case was different - because the mouse had
been cut into small pieces, and Rav Kahana afraid that someone might just
swallow some of them.
(c) The smallest Shi'ur of Sheretz for which one would be Chayav Malkos is -
a 'k'Adashah' (the size of a lentil, which is the Shiur of its Tum'ah.
(a) Ravina thought to measure the mouse in a hundred and one of vinegar -
because he considered it unlikely that the Din of a Sheretz should be more
stringent than that of Terumah, which is Bateil in a hundred and one.
(b) Rav Tachlifa bar Giza countered Ravina's suggestion that perhaps we
ought to compare it to spices of Terumah that fell into a pot - which do not
become Bateil at all (see also Tosfos DH 'ke'Tavlin').
(c) Rav Achai measured the mouse in fifty measures of beer - because of the
sharp taste of beer (as opposed to most other foods), which would diminish
the effectiveness of the mouse.
(d) Rav Shmuel b'rei de'Rav Ika measured the mouse in sixty measures of
beer, and we finally rule 'Idi ve'Idi be'Shishim' (meaning whether the mouse
fell ito a barrel of beer or it fell into a barrel of wine), and that is the
Din regarding all Isurin in the Torah.
(a) We qualify this ruling - confining it 'Miyn be'she'Eino Miyno' (two
different species), because 'Miyn be'Miyno' forbids the mixture even if only
a Mashehu (the smallest amount) of Isur fell into it.
(b) The only Isur that is not Bateil be'Shishim - is Chametz on Pesach,
which always forbids with a Mashehu (even when it is 'Miyn be'she'Eino
(c) ... because the Chachamim decreed 'Miyn be'she'Eino Miyno' on account of
(a) Our Mishnah rules - that barrels of wine which a Nochri is transporting
for a Yisrael are permitted, as long as they are 'be'Chezkas ha'Mishtamer'
(which means that the Yisrael did not inform the Nochri that he was going
far, as the Beraisa explains), even if he travelled ahead as far as a Mil.
(b) In the event that the Yisrael informed the Nochri that he was going way
ahead, the Shiur for the wine to become Asur is 'Kedei she'Yistom ve'Yistom
ve'Yigov' - meaning the time it takes to bore a hole in the lid of the
barrel, to seal it again and for the seal to dry.
(c) Raban Shimon ben Gamliel is more lenient. He permits the wine until the
Shiur of as long as it takes to remove the (sealed) lid from the barrel
(which inevitably entails breaking it), to re-place it with a new lid and
for the new lid to dry ('K'dei she'Yiftach, ve'Yigof ve'Teigov').
(d) He disagrees with the Tana Kama - because, he argues, the Nochri would
not dare bore a hole in the lid, since the seal would invariably be
discernable, and would give him away.
(a) The Mishnah repeats the same Machlokes two more times. In the Reisha of
the first case, the Yisrael leaves the barrel of wine with the Nochri in a
wagon or in a ship, whilst he goes 'be'Kapendarya' - meaning that he takes a
short cut into town). The Tana describes him as visiting the bathhouse, once
he arrives there?
(b) In the second case, he leaves the barrel of wine in the store with the
Nochri. The wine will be permitted - as long as the Yisrael 'pops in' (at
unspecified times) from time to time to check.
(a) The Seifa of the Mishnah discusses a case where the Yisrael invites the
Nochri to eat by him, and exits in the middle of the meal, leaving the
Nochri alone in the room. The Tana ...
1. ... forbids the jar of wine that the Yisrael left on the table ...
(b) ... because the Nochri will take advantage of his initial invitation to
help himself to the former, but he will not be so brazen as to pour himself
a drink from the latter.
2. ... but permits the one on the top of the cupboard ...
(c) If, before leaving the room, the Yisrael instructed the Nochri to help
himself to a drink - then the fresh invitation will encourage him to help
himself to the jar on the cupboard as well, in which case, it too, becomes
(d) The Tana finally forbids all the open barrels in the room. As for the
closed barrels, he says - they become forbidden only if he stays away 'K'dei
she'Yiftach, ve'Yigof ve'Teigov' (like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel).
(a) The Beraisa rules in a case where someone's donkey drivers or workers
were transporting his Taharos, and he went ahead by as much as a Mil - that
his wine is permitted.
(b) In the Seifa however, the Tana rules that as soon as he is out of sight,
his Taharos become Tamei - because there he is speaking when he told them
that they should continue traveling, and that he would catch them up.
(c) To explain the difference between the Reisha and the Seifa, Rebbi
Yitzchak Nafcha establishes the Reisha - when the owner forced his employees
to Tovel in a Mikvah.
(d) The mere fact that the owner did not go far away will not suffice -
because nothing is said in the Beraisa to suggest that the wine was sealed.
(a) Even if we say the same in the Seifa, it will not help however - because
we are afraid that they will allow their friends (who have not Toveled) to
touch the wine (something about which Amei ha'Aretz tend not to be
(b) This fear does not apply in the Reisha, Rava explains, because they are
afraid that the owner will return from a different angle and catch them
allowing their friends to touch the Taharos. They are not afraid of the same
thing in the Seifa - because, since he instructed them to carry on traveling
and that he would catch them up, they are not afraid that he will come back
(a) Having taught us the Halachah of ...
1. ... 'Yotzei ve'Nichnas' in the case of 'ha'Meni'ach Akum ba'Chanuso', the
Tana nevertheless finds it necessary to add that of 'Kapendarya' in the case
of 'ha'Meni'ach Yeino be'Karon O bi'Sefinah' - where they may be less afraid
that he will catch them touching the wine, since they are able to sail the
boat further away from the river bank, and do what they want.
(b) Rabah bar Chanah Amar Rebbi Yochanan qualifies the Machlokes between
Raban Shimon ben Gamliel and the Chachamim - by confining it to where the
lid is made of cement, which is white, and which the replacement will
therefore resemble. Whereas if the lid was made of clay, which is black the
Chachamim would concede that the Shiur is 'she'Yiftach, ve'Yigof ve'Yigov' -
because, were he to make a hole in the lid, the seal (which is initially
white, and takes a day or so to turn black) would be easily discernible, and
they would not dare to just make a hole.
2. ... 'Kapendarya' by 'ha'Meni'ach Yeino be'Karon O bi'Sefinah', the Tana
finds it necessary to add that of 'Yotzei ve'Nichnas' in the case of
'ha'Meni'ach Akum ba'Chanuso' - where they are perhaps less afraid, because
they are able to lock the door and do what they want.
(c) Raban Shimon ben Gamliel asked the Chachamim in a Beraisa - that seeing
as the seal is easily discernible, both on the outside and on the inside,
they would definitely be afraid to make a hole and then to seal it, so how
can they give the Shiur as 'K'dei she'Yistom ve'Yistom ve'Yigov'?
(d) This poses a Kashya on Rebbi Yochanan - because how could Raban Shimon
ben Gamliel suggest that the seal would be discernible even on the outside,
if they were arguing in the case of a lid made of cement.
(a) And we answer that Raban Shimon ben Gamliel was not sure what the
Chachamim were saying. His point of doubt was - whether the Chachamim were
speaking about whether the lid was made of cement or of clay.
(b) What he told them was - that if they were speaking about a clay lid,
then the seal would be discernible both on the outside and on the inside;
whereas if they were speaking about a lid made of cement, then it would at
least be discernible on the inside ...
(c) ... due to the fact that the new seal would not be level with the rest
of the lid.
(d) The Chachamim countered - that a. the Nochri will not worry about that,
because, since the seal on the outside of the barrel is level, it will not
occur to the owner to check the inside, and b. sometimes, the cement fills
the hole completely, so that it is level with the barrel on the inside as
(a) Rava rules like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel - because the Seifa ('Hayah
Ochel Imo al ha'Shulchan ... K'dei she'Yiftach, ve'Yigof ve'Teigov'.
(b) Rava needs to teach us that the Seifa is a S'tam Mishnah like Raban
Shimon ben Gamliel - because we might otherwise have thought that the Seifa
is a continuation of the words of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel, and is not an
(a) When we rule like Rebbi Eliezer (in 'Ein Ma'amidin') regarding 'Ziyufa',
we mean - that whenever a big 'Tircha' is involved (such as making a new
lid, like in our case), we do not suspect a Nochri of taking the trouble to
indulge in forgery ...
(b) ... to preclude - the opinion of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel (who does).
(c) And we rule like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel (not with regard to his
specified opinion, but) - with regard to his rejection of the opinion of the
Chachamim, who suspect that the Nochri might make a hole and fill it in, as
(d) In spite of these two rulings, we do not trust Nochrim with our barrels
of wine nowadays - because of 'Shaycha' (a tiny hole in the barrel, which
was necessary to let out the smell of the wine, and) - which we suspect the
Nochri of enlarging very slightly, just enough to drink from.
(a) Rava permits an open jar of wine belonging to Yisre'elim who are sitting
at table with a Nochri Zonah - because even though the Yetzer-ha'Ra for
adultery is strong, the Yetzer-ha'Ra for Yayin Nesech is not (in which case
they would not let the Zonah touch the wine).
(b) In the reverse case however, where the wine belongs to a Zonah
Yisre'elis who is sitting with Nochrim at table, he forbids the wine -
because, due to the fact that they despise her, she will not stop them
should they want to be Menasech the wine.