POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Bava Basra 161
BAVA BASRA 161 - sponsored by Alex and Helen Gross of Rechavya, Jerusalem,
builders of a home molded by dedication to Torah and Torah study. May the
Torah always protect them and their family!
1) WHERE WE SIGN TIED GITIN (cont.)
(a) Question (Rami bar Chama): R. Yirmeyah bar Aba says that
they sign opposite the text, corresponding to where the
text is (and the document need not say 'Sherir v'Kayam');
1. We should be concerned that he will add to the text,
and add invalid witnesses (so they will be opposite
the text; he can validated the document through any
three witnesses, e.g. the first ones);
(b) Answer (Rav Chisda): The witnesses do not sign widthwise
(i.e. the way the text was written), rather, lengthwise
(each starts his name opposite the bottom line of text,
and finishes opposite the top line).
2. (Even though he will have more witnesses than folds,
this is valid -) he can say, he wanted to have extra
(c) Question: If the end of the document is unfavorable for
the bearer, he might be able to cut it off!
1. If a witness signed 'Reuven ben Yakov, Ed
(witnesses)', when the bottom is cut off, perhaps
'ben Yakov, Ed' will remain as a signature!
(d) Answer: Each witness writes his name *and* the word 'ben'
on the bottom line (i.e. opposite the bottom line of the
text - if he will cut off the bottom line, he will also
cut off 'ben''.
2. (Mishnah): 'Ben Ploni Ed' is a valid signature.
(e) Question: He can cut off 'Reuven ben', and 'Yakov Ed'
1. (Mishnah): 'Ish Ploni Ed' is a valid signature.
(f) Answer #1: The case is, the witnesses do not write 'Ed'
after their names.
(g) Answer #2: They do write 'Ed' after their names; the case
is, we know that no Yakov in this kingdom signs like
(h) Question: Perhaps they will think that Reuven signed his
2) THE LAST LINE OF A DOCUMENT
(i) Answer: A person would not sign his own name in place of
his father's name.
(j) Question: Perhaps they will think that he signed 'Yakov'
as a symbol in place of his own name!
1. Many Amora'im used symbols in place of signing their
names: Rav would draw a fish; R. Chanina - a branch;
Rav Chisda - a 'Samech'; R. Hoshaya - an 'Ayin';
Rabah bar Rav Huna - a mast.
(k) Answer: A person is not so brazen to make his father's
name a symbol in place of his own name.
(l) Answer #3 (Mar Zutra): R. Yirmeyah holds that all the
signatures must finish in the same line (Rashbam - they
all extend from the top to the bottom line, or
vice-versa; Tosfos - every word of the signature starts
in the bottom line).
(a) (R. Yitzchak bar Yosef): (We said that an erasure does
not invalidate a Get if it is in a place fitting and
large enough for it to say 'Sherir v'Kayam' - in any
case,) an erasure must be mentioned in the Get (before
'Sherir v'Kayam', to ensure that nothing was erased after
the Get was signed)'
1. The last line of the Get must recap the Get (i.e. it
cannot teach any new obligations or conditions).
2. Question: What is the reason?
3. Answer (Rav Amram): We do not learn from the last
line of a document.