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Bava Kama 71

BAVA KAMA 71 (Sukos) - dedicated by Rabbi Eli Turkel and his wife. May they be blessed with much Nachas from their children and grandchildren and may all of their prayers be answered l'Tovah!


(a) We learned in our Mishnah 'Tavach u'Machar be Yom ha'Kipurim, Chayav Dale ve'Hey'.
What is the problem with this based on the fact that Chayvei K'riysus are subject to Malkus?

(b) Like whom do we establish our Mishnah to answer this Kashya?

(c) Rebbi Meir says in the Mishnah in Makos that if witnesses testified that Reuven owed Shimon two hundred Zuz and then became Zomemin, they receive Malkos as well as having to pay.
What reason does he give for this?

(d) If the author of our Mishnah is Rebbi Meir, then why is he not Chayav Daled ve'Hey, even if he stole and Shechted on Shabbos?

(a) Rebbi Meir says in a Beraisa 'Ganav ve'Tavach be'Shabbos, Ganav ve'Tavach la'Avodah-Zarah, Ganav Shor ha'Niskal u'Tevacho Meshalem Arba'ah va'Chamishah'.
What do the Rabbanan say?

(b) How is Rebbi Yochanan quoted as explaining Rebbi Meir's statement 'Ganav ve'Tavach be'Shabbos ... Meshalem ... ', in light of what we just learned that 'Meis u'Meshalem Leis Leih'?

(c) What does Rava learn from the Pasuk "u'T'vacho O Mecharo" t explain this? What would the problem otherwise be?

(d) What does de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael learn from "u'Tevacho *O* Mecharo", and de'Bei Chizkiyah from "Tachas"?

3) Mar Zutra asked how it is possible for the Ganav to be Chayav Daled ve'Hey when his Sheli'ach Shechts the animal, considering that he is not Chayav when he himself Shechts it.
What did Rav Ashi reply?


(a) We just cited Rebbi Meir in the Beraisa 'Ganav ve'Tavach be'Shabbos, Ganav ve'Tavach la'Avodah-Zarah, Ganav Shor ha'Niskal u'Tevacho, Meshalem Arba'ah va'Chamishah', whereas the Rabanan exempt him from paying.
What is the Rabbanan's reason? Who must the Rabanan be?

(b) Why is 'Ganav ve'Tavach la'Avodah-Zarah' considered Isurei Hana'ah? Can one render somebody else's animal forbidden?

(c) The above reason also apply to the first case 'Ganav ve'Tavach be'Shabbos' because Rebbi Shimon holds like Rebbi Yochanan ha'Sandlar.
What does Rebbi Yochanan ha'Sandlar hold with regard to someone who cooks on Shabbos be'Meizid?

(d) What does the Mishnah in Chulin say about someone who Shechts an animal on Shabbos? Is the Shechitah valid?

(a) Rebbi Meir says 'ha'Mevashel be'Shabbos be'Shogeg, Yochal, be'Meizid, Lo Yochal'.
Is he referring to eating the cooked dish on the Shabbos itself or afterwards?

(b) In the Seifa, where he cooked be'Meizid, are others permitted to eat it on the same day?

(c) be'Shogeg, Rebbi Yehudah forbids even others to eat it on the same day. What does he say when it was cooked be'Meizid?

(a) What does Rebbi Yochanan ha'Sandlar learn from the Pasuk in Ki Sisa ...
  1. ... "u'Shemartem es ha'Shabbos *Ki Kodesh Hi* Lachem"?
  2. ... "Ki Kodesh Hi *Lachem*"?
(b) And what does he say in the case of a Shogeg?

(c) Rav Acha and Ravina argue over Ma'aseh Shabbos according to Rebbi Yochanan ha'Sandlar. One of them learns that it is d'Oraysa, as we just explained.
What does the other one say? What does he learn from "Kodesh Hu"?

(d) According to the one who holds that it is only mi'de'Rabbanan, how can the Rabbanan in the Beraisa that we quoted earlier exempt someone who Shechts on Shabbos from Daled ve'Hey?

Answers to questions



(a) We ask why, according to Rebbi Meir in the Beraisa, the Ganav is Chayav Daled ve'Hey for Shechting the stolen animal to Avodah-Zarah, seeing as, once he makes the initial cut to Avodah-Zarah, the rest is Asur be'Hana'ah. So what if it is? Why should that exempt him from paying Daled ve'Hey?

(b) What principle (regarding the Dinim of Shechitah) do we have to assume to ask such a Kashya?

(c) Why is he not already Chayav Daled ve'Hey for the initial cut?

(d) How does Rava answer the Kashya?

(a) We ask the same Kashya on the next case in the Beraisa ('Ganav Shor ha'Niskal ... '). And we answer that the Tana speaks about an animal that became a Shor ha'Niskal in the house of a Shomer, from where it was stolen. And the Ganav is Chayav Daled ve'Hey because Rebbi Meir holds like Rebbi Ya'akov and Rebbi Shimon.
What does ...
  1. ... Rebbi Ya'akov say about a Shomer returning a Shor ha'Niskal to the owner?
  2. ... Rebbi Shimon say about 'Davar ha'Gorem le'Mamon'? What is 'Davar ha'Gorem le'Mamon'?
(b) Rebbi Shimon is speaking about paying Daled ve'Hey for stealing and Shechting 'Kodshim she'Chayav be'Acharayusan'.
What are ...
  1. ... 'Kodshim she'Chayav be'Acharayusan'?
  2. ... 'Kodshim she'Eino Chayav be'Acharayusan'?
(a) Rav Z'vid from Neherda'a queried establishing our Mishnah like Rebbi Meir and not like Rebbi Shimon.
On what grounds did he do so?

(b) How did Rav Kahana refute his Kashya? Why is it nevertheless in order for the Reisha to go not like Rebbi Shimon?

(a) Rava asked Rav Nachman what the Din will be if a Ganav stole and Shechted a cow belonging to two partners and confessed to one of them.
What exactly is his She'eilah? What is the case?

(b) What is the basis of the She'eilah? Why might he be Patur from paying Daled ve'Hey, should witnesses subsequently testify that he stole and Shechted it?

(c) What did Rav Nachman initially answer Rava?

(d) We learned in our Mishnah 'Ganav mi'Shel Aviv ve'Tavach u'Machar ve'Achar-Kach Meis Aviv, Meshalem Tashlumei Arba'ah va'Chamishah'.
Why does this pose a Kashya on Rav Nachman?

(a) We answer that the Tana speaks when the Ganav's father had already taken his son to Beis-Din before his death, in which case, the animal belonged entirely to the father, and the son is obligated to pay the full Arba'ah va'Chamishah to him.
What do we then ask on the Seifa 'Ganav mi'Shel Aviv u'Meis, ve'Achar-Kach Tavach u'Machar, Eino Meshalem ... '? Which case should the Tana have rather presented?

(b) The very next morning Rav Nachman changed his mind.
How did he then Darshen "Chamishah Bakar"?

(c) What reason did he give for not answering correctly the night before?

(d) According to Rav Nachman's conclusion, seeing as the son is Chayav to pay even Chamishah Chatza'ei Bakar in the Reisha, why is he Patur from paying in the Seifa?

Answers to questions

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