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Bava Kama 86

BAVA KAMA 86 - Dr. and Mrs. Andy and Dianne Koenigsberg, of New York, have dedicated this Daf l'Iluy Nishmas Dianne's father, Reb Aharon Dovid ben Elimelech Shmuel Kornfeld (Czechoslovakia/Israel/New York), who passed away on 3 Av 5761. May his love for Mitzvos and for Eretz Yisrael be preserved in all of his descendants.


(a) What do someone who strikes his parents without actually wounding them and someone who wounds a fellow-Jew on Yom Kipur, have in common?

(b) How do we try to resolve our current She'eilah (She'ves ha'Pochsaso mi'Damim) from this Mishnah?

(c) Why is the counter-suggestion that the Tana is referring to a case where the Mazik deafened his parents without drawing blood not acceptable?

(d) Where do we stand when we then suggest that the Mishnah is talking about someone who did not actually strike his parents, but who shaved them?

(a) We conclude that the Tana is speaking when he smeared his parents' heads with a permanent hair-remover. This accounts for Nezek, Ripuy and Bo'shes.
But how does it involve ...
  1. ... Tza'ar?
  2. ... She'ves?
(b) Abaye holds that if someone strikes his friend on the hand, and the hand shrivels temporarily, he is obligated to pay She'ves Gedolah and She'ves Ketanah.
What is ...
  1. ... She'ves Gedolah?
  2. ... She'ves Ketanah?
(c) What does Rava say? How is the She'ves assessed?

(d) But is this not Rabah's She'eilah?

(a) If Reuven cuts off the hand of Shimon's Eved Ivri, says Abaye, he pays Nezek to the Eved and She'ves to the master.
What does Rava say?

(b) How would both Abaye and Rava rule in a case where he cut off the tip of the Eved's ear, causing no loss to the master?

(a) Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa, assesses all Jews equally with regard to Bo'shes.
What does he mean when he says 'Ro'in Osan Ke'ilu Heim B'nei Chorin she'Yardu mi'Nichseihem'?

(b) What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

(c) We suggest that the author of our Mishnah ('Bo'shes, ha'Kol L'fi ha'Mevayesh ve'ha'Misbayesh') must be Rebbi Shimon.
What does Rebbi Shimon say?

(d) Why can our Mishnah not go like Rebbi Meir?

(a) Our Mishnah does not appear to go like Rebbi Yehudah either.
Why not?
What does Rebbi Yehudah say about the Bo'shes of a blind man that appears to clashes with our Mishnah?

(b) What distinction do we draw in order to reconcile Rebbi Yehudah with our Mishnah?

(c) What does the Tana there say about the Bo'shes of a sleeping man?

(d) How does this affect our previous effort to establish our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah?

(a) What does the Tana say about Reuven who intended to shame a Katan and he shamed a Gadol, or an Eved, and he shamed a free man?

(b) How do we initially interpret 'Katan' and 'Gadol' in this Beraisa?

(c) In that case, why can the author of the Beraisa not be Rebbi Meir?

(d) And why can the author not be Rebbi Yehudah? What did he say about Avadim?

(a) And why can the author not be Rebbi Shimon? What did he say about 'Niskaven le'Vayesh es Zeh, u'Biyesh es Zeh'?

(b) Rebbi Shimon correlates the Pesukim "ve'Arav Lo ve'Kam Alav" (Shoftim) and "ve'Shalchah Yadah ve'Hichzikah bi'Mevushav" (Ki Seitzei). What does he learn from ...

  1. ... "*ve'Arav Lo* ve'Kam Alav"?
  2. ... "*ve'Shalchah Yadah* ve'Hichzikah bi'Mevushav"?
(c) What distinction do we make to establish the Beraisa like Rebbi Yehudah ('Ein la'Avadim Boshes')?

(d) And how do we reinterpret 'Katan' and 'Gadol' to establish the author as Rebbi Meir?

Answers to questions



(a) What do someone who shames a man who is naked, who is blind and who is asleep, have in common?

(b) What does the Tana say about ...

  1. ... a sleeping man who shames someone else?
  2. ... someone who falls from a rooftop and shames someone as he lands on top of him?
(c) What distinction does the Tana of the Beraisa draw between a shamed man ...
  1. ... who is naked and one who is clothed? Note, that shame in this entire context (from this point on), is confined to uncovering his body.
  2. ... who is in the bathhouse, and one who is in the street?
(d) If, as we assume, a man ...
  1. ... who walks around naked is not subject to shame, how will we explain the Beraisa, which obligates the person who shames him to pay Bo'shes?
  2. ... is not subject to Bo'shes in the bathhouse, how does Rav Papa explain the Beraisa, which obligates the person who shames him there, to pay Bo'shes?
(a) Rebbi Aba bar Mamal asks whether someone who shames a sleeping man who subsequently dies in his sleep is obligated to pay Bo'shes.
What are the two sides to the She'eilah?

(b) What distinction does Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa make regarding Bo'shes, between a Cheresh and a Katan on the one hand, and a Shoteh on the other?

(c) How do we attempt to resolve our current She'eilah from Rebbi Meir's ruling by a Katan?

(d) How do we refute ...

  1. ... the counter-argument to this proof (that if it were a matter of degradation, then why is one not Chayav Bo'shes for shaming a Shoteh, too)?
  2. ... the proof from a Katan that Bo'shes must therefore mean degradation (by citing Rav Papa again)? What did Rav Papa say in similar circumstances?
(a) Rav Papa has another interpretation of Rebbi Aba bar Mamal's She'eilah.
What are the two sides of the She'eilah in his opinion?

(b) How do we ...

  1. ... try to resolve the She'eilah from Rebbi Meir's ruling by a Shoteh (that we just cited)?
  2. ... refute the proof?
(c) And how does Rav Papa refute the proof from Rebbi Meir's ruling by a Katan that Bo'shes must be a matter of family honor, because otherwise, since when is a Katan subject to Bo'shes?

(d) Rav Papa's explanation is borne out by a Beraisa.
What does Rebbi say regarding Bo'shes, about ...

  1. ... a Cheresh?
  2. ... a Shoteh?
  3. ... a Katan?
(a) Our Mishnah obligates someone who shames a blind man to pay Bo'shes. This is the opinion of Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa.
What does Rebbi Yehudah say about a blind man regarding ...
  1. ... Bo'shes?
  2. ... Chayvei Galuyos, Chayvei Malkiyos?
  3. ... Chayvei Miysos Beis-Din?
(b) How do we know that, when Rebbi Yehudah says 'Suma Ein Lo Bo'shes', he is not referring exclusively to a blind man who was shamed (but not to one who shamed others)?

(c) What does Rebbi Yehudah learn from the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "ve'Katzosa es Kapah, Lo Sachos *Einecha*" (Ki Seitzei) from "Lo Sachos *Einecha*" (Shoftim)? In which connection is the second "Einecha" written?

(d) How does he know that a blind man cannot become an Eid Zomem?

(a) And he learns the P'tur of Chayvei Galuyos from the Pasuk in Mas'ei "be'Lo Re'os", 'P'rat le'Suma'. His starting point is the fact that the Torah writes "va'Asher Yavo es Re'eihu ba'Ya'ar".
How does he establish that Pasuk? How does he extrapolate from there that the first Pasuk precludes a blind man?

(b) How would Rebbi Yehudah have explained "be'Lo Re'os", were it not for the Pasuk "va'Asher Yavo ... "?

(c) How does Rebbi Meir extrapolate from the two Pesukim "be'Lo Re'os" and "Bi'vli Da'as" to include a blind man?

(d) And what does Rebbi Yehudah learn from "Bi'vli Da'as"?

13) Rebbi Yehudah learns the P'tur of Chayvei Miysos by a blind man from a 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Lo Sikchu Kofer le'Nefesh *Rotze'ach*" from "*La'nus Shamah Rotze'ach*" (both in Mas'ei), and Chayvei Malkiyos from a 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Im Bin Hakos *ha'Rasha*" (Ki Seitzei) from "Asher Hu *Rasha* La'mus (Mas'ei)".
In which connection does the Pasuk write ...
  1. ... "La'nus Shamah Rotze'ach"?
  2. ... "Asher Hu Rasha La'mus"?
Answers to questions

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