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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Bava Kama 114

BAVA KAMA 114 (3 Kislev) - has been dedicated by Family Posen of Jerusalem & London to honor the Yahrzeit of their father, Reb Moshe ben Yehoshua (Frank) Posen Z"L, who completed Shas learning Dafyomi. He insisted on continuing with his Kevi'us until his very last day.


(a) What does Rava mean when he says 'de'Salkin le'Eila u'de'Nachsin le'Tata'?

(b) On what grounds does Rava prohibit a Jew from testifying in a Nochri court?

(c) Under which circumstances will he permit even that?

(d) What She'eilah did Rav Ashi ask about a distinguished witness whose testimony even the Nochri high-courts accept like that of two witnesses? Why might he nevertheless be permitted to testify even against a fellow Jew?

(a) What is Diyna de'bar Metzra?

(b) Does Diyna de'bar Metzra apply in any way to property of a Nochri?

(c) Then why did Rav Ashi declare a Cherem on anyone who sells a Nochri a field next to that of a Yisrael?

(d) What is the purpose of the Cherem?

(a) On what grounds does the Tana of our Mishnah permit someone to accept a donkey or a garment from a tax-collector in exchange for the one that he took?

(b) What does our Mishnah say ...

  1. ... about someone who saves something from the river, from a troop of soldiers or from a band of robbers?
  2. ... a swarm of bees?
(c) What does the Tana permit a woman or a child to testify in this regard?

(d) The Tana permits entering a neighbor's field to retrieve his swarm of bees that settled on a branch of his tree, and he is obligated to pay for all damages.
What is the Din regarding cutting off the branch of the tree on which his bees have settled, to avoid taking them one by one?

(a) On what grounds does the Tana of the Beraisa obligate someone who received a donkey or a garment from the tax-collector in exchange for his own, to return it to its original owner?

(b) What do others say?

(c) Rav Asi establishes our Mishnah, which holds that the owner of the donkey ... is Meya'esh, by a Mo'ches Nochri, but not by a Jewish Mo'ches.
Why is that?

(d) Rav Yosef says the opposite.
What is his reasoning?

(a) So Rav Yosef switches Rav Asi's inverted comment to the Seifa, which reads 'ha'Matzil min ... ha'Gayas O min ha'Listim, Im Nisya'ashu ha'Ba'alim, Harei Eilu she'Lo'.
What does Rav Yosef infer from here?

(b) How does he then qualify the Mishnah?

(a) What does the Tana in the Mishnah in Keilim mean he says 'Oros shel Ba'al ha'Bayis Machshavah Metam'asan'?

(b) Why is this not the case with regard to the skins of a tanner?

(c) The same factual distinction exists between skins of a Gazlan and those of a Ganav.
Why does the Tana Kama rule 'Machshavah Metam'asan' by those of a Ganav, but not by those of a Gazlan?

(d) What does Rebbi Shimon say?

(a) Ula establishes the Machlokes between Rebbi Shimon and the Tana Kama by S'tam (whether or not, we assume S'tam that by Geneivah or Gezeilah, the owner has been Meya'esh).
What will Ula hold if the owner was specifically heard being Meya'esh?

(b) What does Rabah say?

(c) How does Abaye prove Ula right from our Mishnah 'Natlu Listim es Kesuso ... Mipnei she'ha'Ba'alim Misya'ashim Meihen'? What does this imply?

(d) How does Rabah amend the Mishnah to refute Abaye's proof?

(a) In view of the Machlokes between Rebbi Shimon and the Rabanan, what is the problem with our Mishnah, which presents the two cases of Muchsin and of a Listim who took one's donkey ... and concludes 'Mipnei she'ha'Ba'alim Misya'ashin Meihen'?

(b) If Ula will establish the Mishnah by 'Yadu'a', where the owner was heard to be Meya'esh (and where both Tana'im agree), how will Rabah (who makes no distinction between S'tam and Yadu'a) explain it?

(c) According to Rabah, what is then the basic difference between a Mo'ches and a Listim?

(d) Ula and Rabah establish the Beraisa 'ha'Ganav, ve'ha'Gazlan ve'ha'Anas Hekdeishan Hekdesh ... ' in the same way as they just established our Mishnah, each one according to his way of thinking.
What is the difference between a Gazlan and an Anas?

Answers to questions



(a) Ula and Rabah just established the Beraisa 'ha'Ganav, ve'ha'Gazlan ve'ha'Anas Hekdeishan Hekdesh ... ' in the same way as they established our Mishnah, each one according to his way of thinking. Alternatively, we establish the Beraisa like Rebbi. What does Rebbi mean when he says 'Ganav ke'Gazlan'?

(b) Why must he be referring to the Gazlan of Rebbi Shimon, and not to the Gazlan of the Rabbanan?

(c) We have already cited Rebbi, who told his son Rebbi Shimon, that when the Tana (in connection with ha'Gozel u'Ma'achil es Banav') says 've'Im Hayah Davar she'Yesh Bo Acharayus, Chayavin Le'shalem', he means something that is easily recognizable.
On what grounds are the heirs therefore obligated to return the object?

(d) What do we prove from here?

(a) Having taught us that someone who saves an object from a river or from robbers may keep it provided the owner is Meya'esh, why does the Tana need to add 've'Chein Nechil shel Devorim'? Why might we have thought that this Din will differ from the previous one?

(b) Our Mishnah believes the testimony of a woman or a child, who corroborate the owner's claim that the bees that settled on the neighbor's branch are his.
Since when is the testimony of a woman or a child acceptable? Which two conditions are in fact, required?

(c) Rav Ashi has stated that 'Masi'ach L'fi Tumo' is only acceptable with regard to the testimony of a woman whose husband died'.
How does he reconcile his statement with Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel?

(d) What is a possible case of 'Masi'ach L'fi Tumo' of a child by Eidus Ishah?

(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel relates the story of a man who recalled how, as a small child, he would ride on his father's shoulders.
What happened to him once, when he came out of school?

(b) Which finishing touches does Rebbi Chanina add to the story?

(c) Seeing as Rebbi declared him a Kohen, permitting him to eat Terumah on the basis of his story, how can Rav Ashi restrict Masi'ach L'fi Tumo to cases that are mi'de'Rabbanan?

(a) Rav Acha from Carthage told the story of Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi or Rebbi, who permitted a captured woman to return to her husband who was a Kohen, on the basis of her young son.
What did her son testify, 'Masia'ch L'fi Tumo', about his mother?

(b) And how will we reconcile Rav Ashi with Rebbi, who permitted the boy's mother to return to her husband, who was a Kohen?

(c) Rebbi Yishmael B'no shel Rebbi Yochanan ben Berokah in our Mishnah even permits Shimon, the owner of the bees, to cut off the branch of Reuven's tree to retrieve his bees - one of three conditions of Beis-Din cited by him.
What does he say in a case where ...

  1. ... Reuven, who is transporting a barrel of wine, collides with Shimon who is transporting a barrel of honey, and the honey begins to spill through a crack in the barrel?
  2. ... Shimon's donkey which is laden with flax, dies just as Shimon is passing with his donkey which is laden with wood?
(d) How much must Shimon pay Reuven in each of these three cases?
(a) Under which condition does the Tana of our Mishnah permit Reuven, who recognizes his Sefarim and objects in somebody else's possession, to swear and take them?

(b) Why can he not just take them anyway? What do we suspect?

(c) Even if we heard him shouting in the night that he had been burgled, we still suspect that it was nothing more than a ruse to start the rumor rolling that will later enable him to swear and retrieve the things that he had previously sold.
What additional three-part evidence does Rav Yehudah Amar Rav require to substantiate his claim?

(d) We know that Sefarim as well vessels were stolen, because that is what the people are saying. And how do we know that the vessels that he is claiming are the identical ones that were stolen? Perhaps they stole ...

  1. ... old ones, and he is claiming new ones?
  2. ... small ones, and he is claiming new ones?
(a) What does Rav say about Reuven who digs his way into Shimon's house and steals vessels?

(b) Seeing as the Ganav acquired the vessels, what right does the owner have to retrieve his vessels from those who purchased them from the Ganav?

(c) In which case does Rava not require the owner to describe the stole objects in detail?

(d) Why do we not suspect that perhaps he just happened to need money, and that he sold them in spite of his regular habit?

Answers to questions

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