POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
prepared by Rabbi Yisrael Shaw
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chagigah 22
2. Rava holds like R. Nachman who said in the name of Rabah b.
Avuha: There are eleven stringencies in our Mishnah (since
the first and the fifth are indeed different cases).
(d) Question: What is the difference between R. Ila's reason and
(e) Answer: Immersing utensils inside of a Sal or Gargusani (a very
wide-mouthed basket) is the difference.
1. Rava permits it (since there is no fear that the mouth of
the outer vessel will be too small).
(f) This Machlokes between Rava and R. Ila is actually a Machlokes
between Tana'im, as recorded in a Beraisa.
2. R. Ila prohibits it (since there is still a problem of the
inner utensil weighing down upon the outer utensil, being a
1. The Tana Kama holds like Rava.
(g) Question: If this is the reason (R. Ila or Rava) not to
immerse utensils inside of utensils for Kodesh, then the same
should apply for Terumah and it should be prohibited!
2. Aba Shaul holds like R. Ila.
(h) Answer: The Mishnah is speaking to Chaverim (who follow the
laws of Tum'ah and Taharah), who will be careful when immersing
a utensil within another utensil for Terumah, and will do it
1. Even though an Am ha'Aretz might see the Chaver immersing a
utensil within another utensil and he will go and do it
incorrectly, we do not care, because we do not accept
Terumah from an Am ha'Aretz.
(i) Question: How can we permit immersing this way for Terumah --
perhaps a Chaver will borrow the utensil from an Am ha'Aretz
(and it will be Tamei)!
2. Kodesh, though, we must accept from an Am ha'Aretz, because
if we do not, it will cause enmity.
(i) Therefore, a Chaver may not immerse a utensil within
another utensil for Kodesh, because an Am ha'Aretz
might see and do the same (but do it incorrectly),
and the Kodesh will be Tamei.
3. We find in a Beraisa that it is R. Yosi who is concerned
for causing enmity.
1. A Mishnah (Kelim 10:1) (in which Beis Shamai and Beis
Hillel argue whether an earthenware vessel of an Am ha'Aretz
is able to stop Tum'ah from spreading from one room to
another) shows that Chaverim indeed borrow utensils from
(j) Answer: When a Chaver borrows a utensil from an Am ha'Aretz,
he immerses it again (in case the Am ha'Aretz had immersed it
inside another utensil).
4) THE SECOND STRINGENCY OF KODESH OVER TERUMAH: SEPARATE PARTS OF THE
UTENSIL BECOME TAMEI FOR TERUMAH, BUT NOT FOR KODESH
1. Question: But a Beraisa says that an Am ha'Aretz is
trusted when he says he immersed properly (for Tum'as Mes)!
2. Answer #1 (Abaye): That is only for Tevilah of his body, but
not for Tevilah of a utensil.
(i) This refers to the Tevilah at the end of his seven
day Taharah period (when he had Haza'ah in front of
us on both the third and seventh days).
3. Answer #2 (Rava): He is believed for Tevilah of a utensil,
but only when he says he never immersed a utensil within
(ii) Since we were stringent upon him at the beginning
(requiring that he wait three days in front of us
before doing Haza'ah, and not trusting him that he
counted three days already), we were lenient at the
end (believing him when he said he did Tevilah).
(i) But if he says that he has immersed a utensil within
another utensil, we do not trust that his Tevilah
(a) A utensil (used for Terumah) which became Tamei (mid'Rabanan)
on the outside, is only Tamei on the outside.
5) THE THIRD STRINGENCY OF KODESH OVER TERUMAH: ONE MAY CARRY TERUMAH
WHILE CARRYING A MADRES, BUT ONE MAY NOT CARRY KODESH
1. The utensil's thick upper edge and handle remain Tahor.
(b) What is the "Beis ha'Tzevitah?"
2. If it became Tamei on the inside, though, the entire
utensil becomes Tamei.
1. (Shmuel) The place one holds to stretch it out.
(c) (R. Bivi) Utensils used for Kodesh become Tamei completely, no
matter which part of the utensil was touched by Tum'ah; the same
applies to utensils used for Chulin which was prepared with
Taharah of Kodesh.
2. (R. Yochanan) The place on the utensil for dipping.
1. This is consistent with the statement of Rabah b. Avuha.
2. Rabah b. Avuha said that the first six stringencies in the
Mishnah apply both to Kodesh and to Chulin that was prepared
with Taharah of Kodesh.
(a) Question: Why one not carry Kodesh while carrying a Madres?
(b) Answer: Because of the incident that occurred.
1. A person was carrying a barrel of Kodesh wine from one
place to another.