POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 43
CHULIN 41-43 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in
honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.
1) THE 18 "TEREIFOS" (cont.)
(a) (Ula): Eight kinds of Tereifos were taught to Moshe on
Sinai - punctures, cuts, missing organs, deficient
organs, tears, Drisah, animals that fell, and broken
2) "TEREIFOS" OF THE "VESHET"
1. Ula excludes afflicted organs, i.e. Rachish bar
Papa's teaching, an afflicted kidney.
(b) (Chiya bar Rav): Any of eight punctures makes an animal
(c) Question: There is a ninth - a punctured gall bladder!
(d) Answer: That is according to R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah, the
Halachah is not like him.
(e) (Beraisa): If the Kevah or small intestines were
punctured, it is Tereifah;
(f) R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah says, even if the gall bladder
(g) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): The
Halachah follows R. Yosi;
1. Chachamim: Iyov said "My gall bladder spills to the
ground", yet he lived!
(h) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): The
Halachah is like the opinion that if less than k'Zayis
(an olive's worth) of the liver remains, it is Tereifah.
2. R. Yosi: We cannot learn from miraculous cases.
i. Iyov's kidneys were stricken, according to
nature, he could not survive (Tosfos - without
ii. We must say, he was kept alive miraculously -
"Just guard his soul (that he will not die)."
(i) Contradiction (Rabah bar bar Chanah, citing R. Yochanan):
The Halachah follows an unauthored Mishnah.
1. (Our Mishnah): If the liver was removed, and nothing
remains (it is Tereifah).
(j) Answer: Amora'im argue about R. Yochanan's opinion (if he
really said (h), he did not say (i)).
2. Inference: If anything remains, it is Kosher.
3. (Summation of question): R. Yochanan should rule
like our unauthored Mishnah!
(k) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): If the
gall bladder was punctured, but the liver seals (covers)
the hole, it is Kosher.
(l) (R. Yitzchak b'Rebbi Yosef, citing R. Yochanan): If the
Kurkevan (gizzard, the second stomach of a bird) was
punctured, but the inner membrane is intact, it is
(m) Question: If the inner membrane was punctured, but the
stomach is intact, what is the law?
(n) Answer (Rav Nachman): If either one (but not both) is
punctured, it is Kosher.
(a) (Rava): The Veshet has two membranes; the outer is red,
the inner is white; if either one (but not both) is
punctured, it is Kosher.
1. Question: Why must Rava specify which is red and
(b) Question: What if both membranes are punctured, but in
2. Answer: If the colors are reversed, it is Tereifah.
(c) Answer #1 (Mar Zutra): Regarding the Veshet this is
Kosher, regarding the gizzard it is Tereifah (food will
go between the membranes and seep to the other hole and
(d) Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): Just the opposite! The Veshet
contracts and expands during digestion and breathing, the
holes will line up, there will be a puntcure going all
the way through; the gizzard is stationary, the holes
will not line up.
(e) (Rav Acha brei d'Rav Yosef): I heard that Mar Zutra also
said like Rav Ashi.
(f) (Rava): If a scab formed on a wound in the Veshet, this
is not considered a seal to Machshir the animal).
(g) (Rava): The Veshet cannot be checked from the outside
(for it is normally red), only from the inside (i.e.
turning it inside out).
(h) Question: To what does Rava's teaching apply?
(i) Answer: If we are in doubt if (Rashi - the Veshet was
punctured or) it became Tereifah on account of Drisah (if
the venom makes the Veshet red, it is Tereifah).
3) "TURBATZ VESHET"
1. A doubtfully Nidras bird was brought before Rabah;
he was checking the Veshet from the outside.
(j) (Ula): If a thorn became stuck in the Veshet, we are not
concerned that it punctured the Veshet and the wound
healed (this would be Tereifah, since the scab is not
considered a proper seal).
2. Abaye: But you taught that the Veshet can only be
checked from the inside!
3. Rabah checked it from the inside and found blood
indicating that the venom had penetrated; he ruled
that it is Tereifah.
i. Initially, he checked from the outside to see
if Abaye would catch the mistake.
(k) Question: According to Ula, why is this different than a
doubtfully Nidras animal?
(l) Answer: There also, Ula is not concerned.
(m) Question: Why is this different than two pieces of meat,
one of which is Chelev (we do not know which, on account
of the doubt we may not eat either one)?
(n) Answer: There, we know that a forbidden piece is there.
(o) Question: Why is this different than one who slaughters
with a checked knife, and finds (after slaughtering) that
the knife is blemished (the animal is forbidden)?
(p) Answer: There, a problem (definitely) arose in the knife.
(q) Question: Why is this different than Safek Tum'ah in
Reshus ha'Yachid (about which we are stringent)?
1. Counter-question: Why not rather compare it to Safek
Tum'ah in Reshus ha'Rabim (about which we are
(r) (Answer: Also Safek Tum'ah in a Reshus ha'Yachid is a
special law learned from Sotah, we do not learn
prohibitions from it).
2. Answer: Safek Tum'ah in Reshus ha'Rabim is a special
law learned from Sotah (we do not learn prohibitions
(s) (A Chacham): Ula only said that we are not concerned for
a thorn *found* in the Veshet; we would be concerned for
one *lodged* in the Veshet.
(t) Objection (Rav Kahana): Ula would not need to permit a
thorn found in the Veshet - animals that graze freely eat
thorns all the time!
(a) (Rav): A puncture in Turbatz Veshet (the place where the
Veshet is attached to the jaw) of any size makes the
1. He holds that this is a valid place for slaughter
(like the rest of the Veshet).
(b) (Shmuel): It is only Tereifah if the majority is cut.
1. He holds, this is an invalid place for slaughter.
(c) Question: Which part of the Veshet is considered Turbatz
(d) Answer #1 (Mari bar Mar Ukva): If one slices it
(widthwise) and the cut area expands, this is Turbatz
Veshet; if the cut area does not expand, it is the Veshet
(e) Answer #2 (Rav Papi): If the cut area stays the same
size, this is Turbatz Veshet; if the cut area constricts,
it is the Veshet proper.
(f) Version #1 - Answer #3 (Yonah (a Chacham)): Turbatz
Veshet is the place where it swallows.
(g) Version #2 (Zira): In a Yonah (dove), Turbatz Veshet is
the place where it swallows. (End of Version #2)
1. Question: How far does it extend?
2. Answer (Rav Avya): It extends less than the length
of a barley seed, more than a wheat kernel.