POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 104
CHULIN 104-105 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor.
Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and
prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.
***** PEREK KOL HA'BASAR *****
1) WHICH MEAT IS FORBIDDEN WITH MILK?
(a) (Mishnah): It is forbidden to cook any kind of meat with
milk, except for meat of fish and grasshoppers;
2) A DECREE TO GUARD A DECREE
(b) Cheese may not be brought on the same table with any kind
of meat, except for meat of fish and grasshoppers.
(c) One who vows not to eat meat is permitted to eat meat of
fish and grasshoppers.
(d) (Gemara) Question: Our Mishnah holds that mid'Oraisa,
fowl may not be cooked with milk - who is the Tana?
(e) Answer: It is not R. Akiva, for he holds that the Isur of
Chayos or birds with milk is only mid'Rabanan.
(f) Question: But the Seifa says, one who vows not to eat
meat is permitted meat of fish and grasshoppers -
implying, he is forbidden to eat fowl - this is like R.
Akiva, who says that anything a messenger would ask about
is considered the same species!
1. (Mishnah): If one vowed not to eat Yerek (this word
connotes certain species of vegetables), he may eat
(g) Answer #1 (Rav Yosef): The Mishnah is like Rebbi; he
holds like R. Akiva regarding vows, and like Chachamim
regarding meat and milk.
2. R. Akiva forbids him.
i. Chachamim: If a messenger was sent to get Yerek
(and didn't find any), he would say, I only
found pumpkin (this shows that pumpkin is not
3. Summation of question: Is the Reisha Chachamim, and
the Seifa R. Akiva?!
ii. R. Akiva: To the contrary! He would not
respond, I only found Kitnis (legumes (e.g.
peas) because Kitnis is not considered Yerek at
all, but pumpkin is)!
(h) Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): The whole Mishnah is like R. Akiva;
1. The Reisha means, it is forbidden to cook any kind
of meat with milk - some kinds are forbidden
mid'Oraisa, others, mid'Rabanan;
i. Only meat of fish and grasshoppers is permitted
(a) (Mishnah): Cheese may not be brought...
(b) Inference (Rav Yosef): This shows that (eating) fowl
(cooked with) milk is forbidden mid'Oraisa - if it was
only a Rabbinic decree, we would not forbid putting them
on the same table, that would be a decree to guard a
1. Question: How do we know that we do not enact a
decree to guard a decree?
2. Answer (Rav Yosef - Mishnah): A Zar (non-Kohen) may
eat at the same table with a Kohen eating Chalah of
Chutz la'Aretz (which is only a Rabbinic decree);
such Chalah may be given to any Kohen (even an
3) THE ARGUMENT ABOUT FOWL
3. Question (Abaye): That would be a proof if the
Mishnah discussed Chalah of Chutz la'Aretz *in Eretz
Yisrael*, where there is reason to decree, lest
mid'Oraisa Chalah (of Eretz Yisrael) be eaten by a
Zar or a Tamei ignoramus Kohen;
(c) Question (Rav Sheshes): Even if the Torah forbids fowl
*cooked* with milk, not putting them on the same table is
a decree to guard a decree - the Torah does not forbid
eating them together cold!
i. The only reason not to decree would be that we
do not make a decree to guard a decree.
ii. In Chutz la'Aretz, there is no concern for any
Torah Isur (regarding Chalah), there is no need
iii. But regarding meat and milk, if we allow fowl
and milk on the same table, one may come to put
meat and milk on the same table, and eat them
(d) Answer (Abaye): We should decree, lest they be put
together in a hot pan.
(e) Question: Even so, a Kli Sheni (it was not on the fire,
but food from a pot on the fire was put in it) cannot
cook (the meat and milk)!
(f) Answer: The decree is, lest they be put in a Kli Rishon
(it was on the fire, such pans can cook).
(a) (Mishnah - Beis Shamai): Fowl may be put on the same
table as cheese, but they may not be eaten together;
1. Beis Hillel say, they may not be put on the same
table nor eaten together.
(b) They discuss the table on which one eats, but all permit
putting them side by side on a table on which one
arranges the courses.
2. R. Yosi says, this is a law in which Beis Shamai are
lenient and Beis Hillel are stringent.
(c) (Gemara) Question: Also the first Tana says that Beis
Shamai are more lenient (just like R. Yosi)!
1. Suggestion: Perhaps they argue about eating - the
first Tana says that all forbid eating them
together, and R. Yosi says that Beis Shamai permit
eating them together.
(d) Answer: Indeed, the Mishnah teaches that the first Tana
is R. Yosi!
2. Rejection (Beraisa - R. Yosi): In six laws, Beis
Shamai are lenient and Beis Hillel are stringent -
one is, Beis Shamai permit putting fowl and cheese
on the same table, but they may not be eaten
i. Beis Hillel say, they may not be put on the
same table nor eaten together.
1. "Esther told the king in Mordechai's name" - whoever
says something in the name of its originator brings
redemption to the world.