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Chulin 111

CHULIN 111-112 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.


(a) Rav Safra asked Rav Zerika again.
(b) Rav Zerika: Yehudah brei d'R. Shimon ben Pazi served the branch holding the heart, lungs and liver to me and to Yanai brei d'R. Ami; we ate it.
(c) Question (Rav Ashi): Perhaps the opening of the branch was outside the pot (so the blood flowed out), or the liver had previously been Nichlat (treated so it would not emit blood when cooked)!
1. Rav Huna would put liver in vinegar (to Cholet it); Rav Nachman would put boiling water over it.
(d) (Rav Papa): The vinegar used becomes forbidden.
(e) Rejection (Rava): If so, the liver would also be forbidden - after it emits, it absorbs!
(f) Rav bar Sheva visited Rav Nachman. He was served overcooked liver; he would not eat it. When Rav Nachman heard of this, he commanded that they force him to eat it.
(g) Tana'im argue about this:
1. (Beraisa - R. Eliezer): The liver forbids, but does not become forbidden, because it emits (blood), it does not absorb;
2. R. Yishmael, son of Yochanan ben Brokah says, if liver is seasoned with spices or overcooked, it forbids and becomes forbidden.
(h) Rabah bar Rav Huna visited Rabah bar Rav Nachman's house; he was served a large amount of clean bread smeared with oil and honey.
1. Rabah bar Rav Huna: Did you know that I was coming?
2. His hosts: [No,] we prepared for Shabbos - "You will call Shabbos a delight."
3. Rabah noticed chambers (of the liver) that had absorbed blood; he asked why they allowed this.
4. His hosts: How can we avoid this?
5. Rabah: Cut it lengthwise and widthwise, and roast it with the cut side on bottom.
i. This is only for liver, it is not necessary for spleen (the redness is not blood, just fat).
ii. Shmuel would have a dish with a [whole] cooked spleen on the day he had a bloodletting.
(a) Version #1: If liver was roasted on the same spit with other meat, and the liver was above, both are permitted;
1. This is because blood (that drips from the liver) is slippery, it slides off the meat, it is not absorbed;
(b) If udder was roasted on a spit with other meat, and the udder was above, the meat is forbidden.
1. This is because milk (that excludes from the udder) clings and is absorbed in the meat.
(c) Version #2 (Rav Dimi or Neharda'a): If udder was above other meat (they were roasted on the same spit), both are permitted;
1. Chachamim were lenient because the Isur of milk from a slaughtered cow (cooked with meat) is only mid'Rabanan,
(d) If liver was above other meat, the meat is forbidden;
1. Because the Isur Dam is mid'Oraisa, we are stringent.
(e) Mereimar: The laws of udder and liver are the same - l'Chatchilah, they may be roasted under other meat, but not above;
1. B'Di'eved, if roasted above, all is permitted.
(f) Rav Ashi visited his father-in-law; he saw his brother-in-law roasting liver above meat on the same spit.

1. Rav Ashi: How can you be so brazen - Chachamim permitted this only b'Di'eved!
(g) If the dripping fat is collected in a pan underneath, the fat is forbidden, even if the liver is on bottom (because blood from the liver also drips into the pan).
(h) Question: Blood from any meat drips into the pan with the fat - why is blood from liver different?
1. Answer: Other blood sinks to the bottom and does not mix with the fat; blood from the liver floats and mixes with the fat.
(a) (Shmuel): A knife used to slaughter may not be used to cut hot meat.
(b) Version #1: If it will be used to cut cold meat, one must rinse *it* (Rashi - the meat after it is cut; others explain - the knife, before cutting).
(c) Version #2: It may be used to cut cold meat without rinsing.
(d) This is like another teaching of Shmuel:
1. (Shmuel): Salting (causes absorptions and emissions) like roasting; pickling is like cooking.
(e) (Ravin citing R. Yochanan): Salting is not like roasting; pickling is not like cooking.
(f) Abaye: This is wrong, for R. Ami was a Talmid of R. Yochanan, and he broke a basin used to salt meat.
1. Surely, he heard from R. Yochanan that salting is like roasting (so the basin absorbed blood)!
(g) (Rav Kahana, brother of Rav Yehudah): One may not put hot food in a basin in which meat was salted; a radish cut with a knife (used for meat) may be eaten with milk.
(h) Question: Why is one forbidden and the other permitted?
(i) Answer #1 (Abaye): The radish absorbed permitted Ta'am, the basin absorbed forbidden Ta'am.
(j) Objection (Rava): Even though the radish absorbed permitted Ta'am, it becomes forbidden when it mixes with milk!
(k) Answer #2 (Rava): The radish *can be* permitted if one tastes it (and does not taste meat in it); the basin cannot be permitted (it is forbidden to taste food put in it)!
(l) Question (Rav Papa): A Nochri cook can taste it!
1. (Beraisa): One may not cook milk in a pot in which meat was cooked; if milk was cooked in it, if it absorbed the Ta'am of meat, it is forbidden;
i. One may not cook Chulin in a pot in which Terumah was cooked; if Chulin was cooked in it, if it absorbed the Ta'am of Terumah, it may only be eaten by a Kohen.
2. We understand the latter case - a Kohen can taste whether or not the Terumah can be tasted in the Chulin;
3. Question: By meat and milk, how can we tell if the meat gave Ta'am - it is forbidden to taste the milk, perhaps it is forbidden to all!
4. Answer (Rava): A Nochri cook may taste it.
(m) Answer (Rava): The basin is forbidden when there is no Nochri cook to taste it.
(a) (Rav): If hot fish was put in a [clean] bowl in which meat was eaten, the fish may not be eaten with milk;
(b) (Shmuel): It may be eaten with milk - it received only a Ta'am of [meat from the bowl, which received only] a Ta'am [of actual meat]!
(c) Rav's law was not said explicitly, it was inferred from the following episode.
1. Rav visited his grandson Rav Simi bar Chiya. Rav's eyes were hurting him. They made for him an ointment in a pot. Later, food was cooked in the pot, and Rav tasted the ointment; this taught him that Ta'am can be transferred in this way.
(d) Rejection: That is not a source - the ointment was very bitter, thus its Ta'am is preserved more than the Ta'am of meat.
(e) R. Elazar served to Shmuel fish that were put (when still hot) in a bowl used for meat. Shmuel ate them with milk and offered to R. Elazar; he refused.
1. Shmuel: I gave to your Rebbi (Rav, from whom R. Elazar heard that this is forbidden) and he ate - why won't you eat?!
2. R. Elazar (to Rav): Did you retract from your teaching (that this is forbidden)?
3. Rav: Shmuel would never serve me something that I forbid (Rav never forbade it - people mistakenly inferred this from the episode with the ointment).
(f) Rav Huna and R. Chiya bar Ashi ate together. One ate fish that were put (when hot) in a bowl (that was used for meat) with milk; the other ate figs and grapes during a meal without blessing on them. Each rebuked the other, 'Would your Rebbi do that?!'
1. The one who ate fish with milk holds like Shmuel, who permits this;
2. The one who ate figs and grapes without blessing holds like R. Chiya:
i. (R. Chiya): The blessing on bread exempts all foods; the blessing on wine exempts all beverages.
(g) (Chizkiyah): The Halachah is that fish that were put (when hot) in a bowl (used for meat) may be eaten with milk;
1. A radish cut with a knife that was used to cut meat may not be eaten with milk.
2. This is because radishes are pungent and absorb the Ta'am of meat from the knife - but if a gourd was cut with such a knife, after scraping off the cut surface it may be eaten with milk.
3. If one cut turnip stalks (with such a knife), they are permitted (with milk; Rosh - after rinsing );
4. If one cut beets, they are forbidden (with milk);
i. If one was alternately cutting turnips and beets, even the beets are permitted (the turnips nullify the Ta'am of meat on the knife).
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