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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Horayos 5

HORAYOS 5 - Today's Daf has been dedicated by Rabbi Dr. Eli and Jeri Turkel, of Ra'anana Israel, in honor of the births of the new grandchildren, Yisrael Yehonatan (to Tamar and Netanel Casado) and Avigayil Zahava (to Limor and Chaim Turkel).


(a) According to Rebbi Meir in our Mishnah, in a case where Beis-Din err with regard to other sins, they bring a bull.
What will they have to bring if they err with regard to Avodah-Zarah?

(b) According to Rebbi Yehudah, if Beis-Din err with regard to most sins, they bring twelve bulls.
What will they bring if they err with regard to Avodah-Zarah?

(c) What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(d) What does Rebbi Shimon say? What is his reason?

(a) According to Rebbi Meir, in a case where the majority of K'lal Yisrael sinned following Beis-Din erroneous ruling, Beis-Din bring one bull (or a bull and a goat).
What does ...
  1. ... Rebbi Yehudah say in a case where one tribe sinned?
  2. ... Rebbi Shimon say in a case where seven tribes sinned?
(b) What does Rebbi Yehudah say about one tribe that sinned following the erroneous ruling of its own Beis-Din (of twenty-three)?

(c) What do the Chachamim learn from the Pasuk "ve'Im Kol Adas Yisrael Yishgu"?

(d) Does this mean that no Korban is brought in this case?

(a) What does the Tana Kama of the Beraisa learn from the Pasuk "ve'Nod'ah ha'Chatas (Asher Chat'u Alehah, Ve'hikrivu)"?

(b) What does Rebbi Yehudah there learn from ...

  1. ... "Asher Chat'u"?
  2. ... "Ve'hikrivu ha'Kahal"?
(c) Actually, even one tribe brings a bull, if it alone followed the ruling of Beis-Din ha'Gadol.
Then why does he present the case of two tribes that sinned?
(a) What does Rebbi Shimon learn from the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Kahal" "Kahal" ("Ve'Hikrivu ha'Kahal" from "ve'Ne'elam me'Einei ha'Kahal")?

(b) How can Rebbi Meir learn from the same 'Gezeirah-Shavah' that if seven tribes followed Beis-Din's ruling, the latter bring only one bull?

(a) We initially presume that the Tana Kama of the current Beraisa ('Ve'nod'ah ha'Chatas') cannot be Rebbi Eliezer. What does Rebbi Eliezer (in another Beraisa) say about someone who knows that he ate either Cheilev or Nosar, but is not sure which one?

(b) Rav Ashi reconciles Rebbi Eliezer with the earlier Beraisa by citing the Pasuk "Asher Chat'u Alehah".
What does he gain by that?

(c) We counter this by citing the Pasuk "Asher Chata Bah"(in connection with a regular Chatas) which has the same connotations.
How do we refute this Kashya? What does Rebbi Eliezer learn from "Asher Chata Bah"?

(a) What do we mean when, to explain Rebbi Yehudah's opinion, we refer to four times "Kahal"?

(b) The first of these comes to teach us that each tribe must bring a Chatas, and the second, that it is the Beis-Din who must issue the ruling and the Kahal who must act on it.
The third "Kahal" comes to teach us G'reirah. What is 'G'reirah'?

(c) What does Rebbi Yehudah learn from the fourth ''Kahal"?

(d) According to Rebbi Shimon, "me'Einei ha'Kahal" is not redundant, which leaves him with only three times "Kahal".
With which of Rebbi Yehudah's four D'rashos does he agree?

(a) What does Rebbi Shimon learn from the other two 'Kahals' (with a 'Gezeirah-Shavah')?

(b) Rebbi Meir learns the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' differently than Rebbi Shimon (i.e. that just as "me'Einei ha'Kahal" speaks exclusively about the Beis-Din [as we explained earlier], so too, does "ve'Hikrivu ha'Kahal", and that Beis-Din alone is therefore obligated to bring a bull). Why does he only contend with two of the 'Kahals', and not three?

(c) What does Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar quoting Rebbi Meir, Darshen from the Pasuk ...

  1. ... "Ve'hayah Im me'Einei ha'Eidah"?
  2. ... "Ki le'Chol ha'Am bi'Shegagah"?
(d) How does he reconcile the two D'rashos?
Answers to questions



(a) What does Abaye learn from the Pasuk in Sh'lach-Lecha "Ve'hayah Im me'Einei ha'Eidah Ne'es'sah li'Shegagah" (according to Rebbi Shimon and Rebbi Meir)?

(b) Rava learns it from the Pasuk there "Ki le'Chol ha'Am bi'Shegagah" as well.
Why does he need this Pasuk? Why will Abaye's Pasuk alone not suffice?

(c) Why does Abaye then need the Pasuk of "Ve'hayah . ... "? Why will Rava's Pasuk not suffice?

(d) Both these Pesukim are written in connection with Avodah-Zarah.
How will Rebbi Shimon and Rebbi Meir apply all of this to Shigegas Hora'ah by other Mitzvos?

(a) We ask whether, according to Rebbi Yehudah, if one tribe sins, each of the other tribes are obligated to bring a Par as well.
Will this She'eilah extend to two, three of four tribes that sin too, or is it only confined to one tribe that sins?

(b) We try to resolve the She'eilah from a Beraisa, where the Tana Kama obligates one bull, and Rebbi Shimon two.
Why can the Beraisa not be speaking about ...

  1. ... seven tribes that sinned?
  2. ... one tribe that sinned following the erroneous ruling of its own Beis-Din?
(c) So how do we think the Beraisa must be speaking, to resolve our She'eilah?

(d) We refute the proof by establishing the Beraisa when six tribes comprising the majority sinned.
Who will the Tana Kama then be?

(e) Under which circumstances does Rebbi Shimon then say that each tribe must bring its own bull?

(a) We resolve our She'eilah from a Beraisa.
What distinction does Rebbi Yehudah there draw between a tribe that sinned followed an erroneous ruling of its own Beis-Din and one that sinned following the erroneous ruling of the Beis-Din ha'Gadol?

(b) How does Rav Ashi support this from Rebbi Yehudah in our Mishnah, where (with regard to one tribe following an erroneous ruling of its own Beis-Din) he says 'Oso Sheivet Chayav, ve'Sha'ar Kol ha'Shevatim Peturim'?

(a) We ask whether, according to Rebbi Shimon, one tribe that sins is obligated to bring a bull be'Shigegas Hora'ah (bearing in mind that he does, after all hold that one tribe is called 'Kahal').
What will they bring assuming that there are not?

(b) We try to resolve the She'eilah citing the same Beraisa again, where the Tana Kama obligates one bull, and Rebbi Shimon two, by establishing it when one tribe sinned following the erroneous ruling of Beis-Din ha'Gadol.
Focusing on the Tana Kama, why are we forced to reject this explanation?

(c) So how do we establish the Beraisa?

(d) We finally resolve the She'eilah from our Mishnah (with reference to Rebbi Yehudah's ruling, obligating one tribe who sinned following its Beis-Din's erroneous ruling) 'va'Chachamim Omrim Eino Chayav Ela al Hora'as Beis-Din ha'Gadol'.
How do we know that the Chachamim is Rebbi Shimon and not Rebbi Meir?

(a) What do we try to prove from the Pasuk in Divrei Hayamim "Va'ya'amod Yehoshafat bi'Kehal Yehudah vi'Yerushalayim ... "?

(b) Rebbi Yochanan explains that "Lifnei Chatzer ha'Chadashah" in the same Pasuk, refers to a new decree.
Which decree?

(c) On what grounds does Rav Acha bar Ya'akov reject the proof from there that one tribe is called 'Kahal'?

(a) How does Rav Acha bar Ya'akov then prove it from the Pasuk in Vayechi, where Ya'akov's quotes Hashem as having said to him "Hineni Mafrecha Ve'hirbisicha u'Nesaticha li'Kehal Amim"?

(b) Rav Sh'va asked Rav Kahana whether the Pasuk might not mean that when Binyamin was born, then the twelve tribes, who were called 'Kahal' would be complete.
What did Rav Kahana reply?

Answers to questions

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