POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Menachos 76
MENACHOS 76 - sponsored towards the Zechus of a Refu'ah Shelemah for Reb
Aharon David ben Mirel.
1) ROLLING AND BEATING "MENACHOS"
(a) (Mishnah): All Menachos must be rolled 300 times and
beaten 500 times;
2) THE NUMBER OF LOAVES
(b) These are done to the wheat;
(c) R. Yosi says, (they are done) to the dough.
(d) R. Yehudah says, all Menachos are baked into 10 loaves
(or wafers), except for Lechem ha'Panim and Chavitim,
which are 12;
(e) R. Meir says, all are baked into 12 loaves, except for
Lachmei (the breads brought with) Todah or Ayil Nazir,
which are 10 (of each kind of bread.)
(f) (Gemara - Beraisa): One rolls once, beats twice, rolls
twice and beats three times; this is repeated 100 times,
in all 300 rolls and 500 beats.
(g) Question (R. Yirmeyah): Is rolling outward and back
counted as one roll or two?
(h) This question is not resolved.
(i) (Mishnah): Rolling and beating are done to the wheat; R.
Yosi says, to the dough.
(j) Question: Does R. Yosi mean, they must be done to the
dough, not to the wheat - or, they may be done to the
dough *or* to the wheat?
(k) Answer (Beraisa): Rolling and beating are done to the
wheat; R. Yosi says, rolling and beating are done to the
dough. (If he meant *or* to the dough, he would not have
repeated 'rolling and beating'.)
(a) (Mishnah - R. Yehudah): All Menachos...except for Lechem
ha'Panim and Chavitim, which are 12.
3) TOO MANY OR TOO FEW LOAVES
(b) Regarding Lechem ha'Panim, it explicitly says that they
are 12 loaves; we learn Chavitim from a Gezerah Shavah
"Chukah-Chukah" from Lechem ha'Panim.
(c) Question: What is R. Yehudah's source that other Menachos
(d) Answer: He learns from Lachmei Todah, which are 10 (of
(e) Question: Why not learn 12 from Lechem ha'Panim?
(f) Answer: It is more reasonable to learn from Lachmei
Todah, for they resemble (regular) Menachos in the
1. They are brought by individuals, they are voluntary,
they contain oil, they are Nifsalim (through Linah
if left overnight), they are not brought on Shabbos
(g) Question: Perhaps we should rather learn from Lechem
ha'Panim, for it resembles Menachos in the following
1. They are Kodshei Kodoshim, Levonah is brought with
them, they are totally Matzah, they are brought on
account of themselves.
(h) Answer: There are more similarities to Lachmei Todah.
(i) Question: If something learned from a Gezerah Shavah can
teach about something else through a Binyan Av (the
Gemara in Zevachim never resolved this question), we
should learn 12 from Chavitim! (Rashi - we would learn
from a Mah Matzinu.)
(j) Answer: It is more reasonable to learn from Lachmei
Todah, for they resemble Menachos in the following ways:
1. They are brought by commoners, they are voluntary,
they are not brought half at a time, Pigul applies
to them, they are not brought on Shabbos, or
(k) Question: We should rather learn from Chavitim, for they
have more similarities to Menachos!
1. They consist of one Isaron of Soles, they must be
brought in a Kli Shares (alternatively - a Kli is
Mekadesh them, whereas slaughter of a Todah is
Mekadesh its bread), they are Kodshei Kodoshim,
Levonah is brought with them, they are totally
Matzah, they are brought on account of themselves,
Hagashah is done, they are (at least partially)
burned on the Mizbe'ach.
(l) Answer: R. Yehudah learns Menachos of commoners from
those of commoners - this outweighs the similarities to
(m) (Mishnah - R. Meir): All are baked into 12 loaves...
(n) Question: What is his reason?
(o) Answer: If he holds that something learned from a Gezerah
Shavah can teach through a Binyan Av, he learns from
Chavitim (for they have more similarities to Menachos
than Lachmei Todah);
1. If he holds that it cannot teach through a Binyan
Av, he learns from Lechem ha'Panim - even though it
has less similarities to Menachos than Lachmei
Todah, we learn Kodshei Kodoshim from Kodshei
Kodoshim, this outweighs the similarities to Lachmei
(p) (Mishnah): Except for the Lachmei Todah or Nazir, which
(q) The Torah clearly teaches that there are 10 loaves of
each kind of Lachmei Todah;
(r) Regarding Todah it says "Shelamav" to include Ayil Nazir
(its breads resemble Lachmei Todah regarding the amount
of Soles and the number of each kind of bread.)
(a) (Rav Tuvi bar Kisna): If one baked Lachmei Todah into
four loaves, he fulfilled his obligation.
(b) Question: But one of (the 10 loaves of) each of the four
varieties must be made Terumah (and given to the Kohen!)
1. Suggestion: Perhaps a piece of each is broken off to
(c) Answer: The case is, Terumah was separated during the
kneading (the four Terumos were baked by themselves - Rav
Tuvi only counts the (four) loaves kept by the Yisrael.
Sfas Emes - there were 10 doughs of Chametz, after one
was made Terumah, the other nine were combined to make
one loaf; the same applies to each of the three kinds of
2. Rejection: "Echad" - one must give a whole loaf!
(d) Question (Beraisa): If any Minchah was baked into too
many or too few loaves, it is Kosher, except for Lechem
ha'Panim, Chavitim, Lachmei Todah and Nazir.
(e) Answer: Rav Tuvi holds like the following Tana:
4) SIFTING TO GET "SOLES" FOR "MENACHOS"
1. (Beraisa): If any Minchah was baked into too many or
too few loaves, it is Kosher, except for Lechem
ha'Panim or Chavitim;
(f) (Rav Huna): If one baked Ma'afe Tanur into one loaf, he
fulfilled his obligation;
2. Some say, also Lachmei Todah and Nazir (are
1. This is because regarding Ma'afe Tanur, "Matzos" is
written without a 'Vov', like 'Matzas' (singular).
(g) Question (Rav Papa): If so, if one baked (all the flour
for one type of) Lachmei Todah into one loaf, he should
not fulfill his obligation, for there "Matzos" is written
with a 'Vov' - but Rav Tuvi taught that he fulfills his
(h) Answer: Rav Huna argues with Rav Tuvi.
(a) (Mishnah): The Omer consists of an Isaron (of Soles
sifted) from three Sa'im (of flour);
(b) Shtei ha'Lechem is made from two Esronim from three
(c) Lechem ha'Panim is made from 24 Esronim of Soles from 24
(d) (Gemara) Question: What is the reason (why different
amounts of Soles are sifted from a Se'ah for these
(e) Answer: The Omer is sifted from Chadash barley, which
contains much bran, three Sa'im are needed to get a
1. Shtei ha'Lechem is sifted from Chadash wheat, which
contains less bran, two choice Esronim come from
(f) (Beraisa): If too much or too little Soles was used for a
Minchah, it is Pasul;
2. The wheat for Lechem ha'Panim may be old, which has
even less bran, a choice Isaron comes from a Se'ah.
1. If it was sifted from too much or too little flour,
it is Kosher.
(g) (Mishnah): The Omer was sifted in 13 sieves, Shtei
ha'Lechem in 12, Lechem ha'Panim in 11;
(h) R. Shimon says, there is no fixed amount, it must be
sifted as much as necessary;
1. We learn from "V'Lakachta Soles v'Afisa".
(i) (Gemara - Beraisa): They would sift in a fine sieve (it
retains (the grains which will be ground again to make)
Soles and bran, and lets (regular quality) flour pass
through), then in a coarse (large-holed) sieve (it
retains bran, and lets Soles and flour pass through),
then in a fine sieve, in a coarse sieve...
(j) (Rashi - there were only two sieves; Rashi Kesav Yad -
there were 13, each fine sieve was coarser than the
previous fine sieve (flour retained by the former would
pass through the latter), each coarse sieve was finer
than the previous coarse sieve (the latter would retain
bran that passed through the former.))
(k) R. Shimon ben Elazar says, there were 13 sieves one above
the other; the top one retains bran, the bottom retains
(grains for) Soles (and lets flour pass through. Rashi
Kesav Yad - he does not argue, he only explains the first
Tana; Rashi - he holds that each sifter was finer than
the one above.)
(l) R. Shimon says, there is no fixed amount...
(m) (Beraisa): "Soles v'Afisa Oso" - this teaches that one
may buy Soles (already sifted, for the sake of Lechem
1. Question: What is the source that one may buy wheat
(and sift it?)
2. Answer: "V'Lakachta" - in any case.
3. Suggestion: Perhaps this applies to other Menachos!
4. Rejection: "Osah" - it is permitted only for Lechem
ha'Panim, to save money (Soles is more expensive
than wheat; this is felt most regarding Lechem
ha'Panim, for much Soles is needed, and it is
brought every week.)
5. Question: Why is this a consideration?
6. Answer (R. Elazar): The Torah is concerned for the
money of Yisrael.
7. Question: Where does the Torah show this concern?
8. Answer: "V'Hishkisa Es ha'Edah v'Es Be'iram".
(Hash-m gave water for the people and their