POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Menachos 82
1) MAY "LACHMEI TODAH" BE BROUGHT FROM "MA'ASER SHENI"
(a) (R. Zeira): He may not use (for Lachmei Todah) wheat of
Ma'aser Sheni, he may use wheat bought with Ma'aser
2) GIVING "KEDUSHAS SHELAMIM" TO "MA'ASER SHENI"
(b) R. Yirmeyah: He may not use even wheat bought with
Ma'aser money! I will explain both of our opinions:
1. You understand, we learn Todah from Shelamim (that
it may come from Ma'aser; Rashi - that it may not
come from Ma'aser wheat), which is learned from a
Gezerah Shavah "Sham-Sham" from Ma'aser;
i. Just like Shelamim is not itself Ma'aser, also
Todah - but wheat bought from Ma'aser money may
2. I agree that Todah is learned from Shelamim, which
is learned from Ma'aser;
i. (However, I say) just like Shelamim does not
come from a species subject to Ma'aser, also
Todah (and its bread, i.e. one may not use
wheat bought from Ma'aser money. Loaves bought
from Ma'aser (Rashi Kesav Yad - l'Shem Todah)
may be used.)
(a) (R. Ami): If one is Matfis Ma'aser Sheni for Shelamim (is
Makdish it with Kedushas Shelamim), it does not take
3) "CHOVOS" MUST BE BROUGHT FROM "CHULIN"
(b) Question: What is the reason?
(c) Answer: Kedushas Shelamim is not strong enough to be Chal
(take effect) on Kedushas Ma'aser.
(d) Question (Mishnah): If one used Ma'aser money to buy a
Chayah for a Shelamim, or a Behemah to eat like Chulin,
(this is improper, therefore) the skin does not become
1. Inference: The skin receives Kedushas Shelamim!
(e) Answer: No, it means, the animal is not Nitfas
(bi'Kdushas Shelamim) in a way that would cause the skin
to become Chulin (like it does when one buys a Behemah
for Shelamim or a Chayah for Chulin, even though it was
bought with Ma'aser money and the skin will not be eaten.
Rashi - alternatively, the animal is not Nitfas
bi'Kdushas Shelamim, so it is inapplicable to discuss the
skin becoming Chulin.)
(f) Question: What is the reason?
(g) Answer (Rabah): This is like buying an ox for plowing
(Kedushas Ma'aser transfers to the entire ox, it must be
sold to buy food to eat bi'Kedushas Ma'aser.)
(h) (R. Yochanan): If one is Matfis Ma'aser Sheni for
Shelamim, it takes effect;
(i) (R. Elazar): It does not take effect.
(j) According to R. Yehudah, who says that a person owns his
Ma'aser Sheni (it is Chulin, just there are
restrictions), all agree that Kedushas Shelamim is strong
enough to be Chal;
1. They argue according to R. Meir, who says that
Ma'aser Sheni is Kodesh (a person does not own it,
he just has permission to eat it);
(k) Question (against R. Elazar - Beraisa): If one is Matfis
Ma'aser Sheni for Shelamim, when he redeems it, he must
add two fifths, one for Hekdesh (it gets Kedushas
Shelamim), one for Ma'aser.
2. Clearly, R. Elazar holds like R. Meir;
3. Even R. Yochanan's law can be like R. Meir;
i. Version #1 (our text, Rashi Kesav Yad): Ma'aser
is called Shelamim (it says "V'Achalta Sham
(Shelamim)" - a Gezerah Shavah teaches that
this refers to an animal bought with Ma'aser.)
ii. Version #2 (Rashi): Since Ma'aser can be (used
to buy an animal to be) offered as Shelamim, it
(l) Answer: This is like R. Yehudah.
(a) (Mishnah) Question: What is the source that if one said
'Alai Todah', he must bring it from Chulin?
(b) Answer: "V'Zavachta Pesach...Tzon *u'Vakar*";
1. Objection: Pesach is not brought from cattle, only
from flock (sheep or goats)!
(c) Therefore, if one said 'Alai Todah' or 'Alai Shelamim',
he is now obligated to bring it, he must bring it from
2. Answer: This is extra, to equate (all other)
Korbanos, that are brought from flock or cattle to
i. Just like Pesach is a Chovah (obligation), it
is brought only from Chulin, also all Chovos.
(d) In every case, Nesachim must be from Chulin (Ma'aser
cannot be used, for people do not eat them.)
(e) (Gemara): Question: What is the source that one must
bring Pesach from Chulin?
(f) Answer #1 (Beraisa - R. Eliezer): We learn Pesach Doros
(i.e. after entering Eretz Yisrael) from the Pesach
offered in Mitzrayim;
1. Just as Pesach Mitzrayim was from Chulin (there was
no Ma'aser (Rashi; Rambam - Hekdesh) at the time),
also Pesach Doros.
2. R. Akiva: We cannot learn something possible (Pesach
Doros, which (conceivably) could be brought from
Ma'aser) from something impossible!
3. R. Eliezer: Indeed, we can learn possible from
4. R. Akiva: Blood and Eimurim of Pesach Doros must be
offered on the Mizbe'ach, we cannot learn it from
Pesach Mitzrayim, which was brought without a
4) "KODSHEI KODOSHIM" ARE COMPARED TO EACH OTHER
5. R. Eliezer: "Va'Avadta Es ha'Avodah ha'Zos
ba'Chodesh ha'Zeh" - all Avodah of this month is the
same (Pesach Doros is like Pesach Mitzrayim.)
(g) Question: If R. Akiva maintains that we cannot learn
possible from impossible, his first objection suffices;
1. If he retracted, and does not learn from Pesach
Mitzrayim because there was no (Hakravah on a)
Mizbe'ach, he should learn from Pesach brought in
the Midbar (there was a Mizbe'ach, yet it was
brought from Chulin, for there was no Ma'aser!)
(h) Answer: He asks according to R. Eliezer's opinion;
1. According to me, we cannot learn possible from
(i) Question: Why didn't he answer that we learn from Pesach
2. You learn possible from impossible - still, you
cannot learn from Pesach Mitzrayim because there was
no Mizbe'ach! (Rashba - R. Akiva assumed that R.
Eliezer learned specifically from Pesach Mitzrayim,
for some reason he could not learn from Pesach
3. R. Eliezer answered, the Hekesh "Va'Avadta"
overcomes this objection.
(j) Answer: He answered according to R. Akiva's opinion:
1. According to me, we learn possible from impossible,
Pesach Midbar answers your objection;
(k) Question: Still, this is possible from impossible (why
should R. Akiva agree to this?)
2. You do not learn possible from impossible - still,
you should learn from Pesach Mitzrayim because of
(l) Answer (Rav Sheshes): We learn from this that we do not
challenge a Hekesh (even if it contradicts normal laws of
expounding (Tosfos - if there is nothing else to learn
(m) Question (Rabanan of the Beis ha'Medrash): How can Pesach
Doros, which was learned from a Hekesh, teach about other
Korbanos through a Hekesh?
(n) Answer: "Va'Avadta" is not a Hekesh, rather, it teaches
that all Pesachim are one matter, they have one law.
(a) Question: What is R. Akiva's source that Pesach must come
(b) (The answer to this question is on Daf 83A, he expounds a
verse; the Gemara first explains how R. Eliezer expounds
(c) (Shmuel citing R. Eliezer): "Zos ha'Torah la'Olah
la'Minchah vela'Chatas vela'Asham vela'Milu'im ul'Zevach
ha'Shelamim" - just like Olah requires a Kli, all these
Korbanos require a Kli. (This verse teaches about all
Korbanos, even Ofos - Tosfos Zevachim 2A.)
1. Question: Which Kli do we learn from this?
i. Suggestion: We learn that a Kli is needed for
Kabalas Dam (like it says regarding the Olos
offered before Matan Torah, "Va'Yasem
2. Answer: Rather, we learn that a knife is needed for
ii. Rejection: That verse also applies to the
Shalmei Tzibur offered then (R. Eliezer should
have said that we learn from Olah *and
3. Question: What is the source that Olah require a
knife for slaughter?
4. Answer: We learn from "Va'Yishlach Avraham Es Yado
va'Yikach Es ha'Ma'acheles Lishchot Es Beno".
i. "Va'Ya'alehu l'Olah Tachas Beno" - since the
ram was an Olah in place of Yitzchak, it
follows that he was also an Olah. (Sefas Emes
asks why we do not learn from Hash-m's initial
command to offer Yitzchak as an Olah.)