ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Menachos 104
(a) Our Mishnah forbids donating one, two or five Lugin of wine - because it
does not tally with any official Minchas Nesachim.
(b) On the other hand, the Tana permits a donation of ...
1. ... three, four or six Lugin - because three Lugin is the Minchas
Nesachim of a lamb, four, of a ram, and six, of a bull.
(c) We ask whether 'Yesh K'va li'Nesachim' - meaning that whatever a person
undertakes to give, he must give in one go, or whether he brings four out of
the five Lugin (say) that he donated, and the rest is bought separately
('Ein K'va li'Nesachim'), as we shall see.
2. ... more that six Lugin - because it will always be possible to divide it
into two or three (e.g. seven Lugin can be divided into three for a lamb and
four for a ram).
(d) Assuming that we hold 'Yesh K'va li'Nesachim', if someone designates
five Lugin of wine - he must add one Log and bring it as the Minchas
Nesachim of a bull.
(a) Abaye tries to resolve the She'eilah from the Beraisa 'Shishah
li'Nedavah'. The first four boxes were marked 'Mosar Chatas', 'Mosar
Ashamos', 'Mosar Asham Nazir' and 'Mosar Asham Metzora'. 'Mosar Chatas'
constituted - leftovers from money that was designated for a Chatas (i.e.
if, after designating money for one's Chatas, the price of lambs went down).
(b) 'Ashamos' incorporates - Asham Gezeilos and Asham Me'ilos.
(c) An independent box was needed for ...
1. ... Mosar Asham Nazir - because whereas the aforementioned Ashamos came
to atone, the latter came to render the hitherto Tamei Nazir ready to begin
his Nezirus de'Taharah (as the Gilyon ha'Shas explains).
(d) One of the remaining two boxes was marked 'Mosar Kinin'. The second one
was marked as - 'Mosar Minchas Chotei'.
2. ... Mosar Asham Metzora - because it too, was different than the first
two Ashamos, in that it came to permit the Metzora to return to the camp.
(e) The money from all of these boxes was used - to purchase Olos for Nidvas
Tzibur (as will be explained in the last Perek).
(a) Abaye tries to prove from the Beraisa - that 'Yesh K'va li'Nesachim'.
Otherwise, he claims, the Tana ought to have added a seventh box.
(b) We refute this proof however - by pointing out that a box was not
necessary for the Mosar Nesachim, for which, because they were common, one
could always find another Mosar Nesachim which required the extra Log of
(c) Rava resolves the She'eilah from a Beraisa. The Tana learns from the
Pasuk (in connection with the Nesachim) "Kol *ha'Ezrach* Ya'aseh Kachah"
that one may donate Nesachim. The minimum quantity of wine that could be
donated was - three Lugin.
(a) The Beraisa learns from ...
1. ... "Yih'yeh" - that it was permitted to donate more than three Lugin of
(b) From the Tana's Limud from "Yih'yeh" ('Yosif') Rava proves - that 'Ein
K'va li'Nesachim', because once we know that one may donate three Lugin, it
is obvious that one may also donate four or six Lugin (which is as much an
official Minchas Nesachim as three), so the Pasuk must be coming to teach us
that one may donate five Lugin.
2. ... "Kachah" - that one could not donate less.
(c) Rav Ashi queries Rava however, from our Mishnah 'Ein Misnadvin Log,
Shenayim va'Chamishah'. Rav Ashi tries to disprove Rava from here - because
he assumes that just as 'Shenayim' is not fit at all ('Yesh K'va
li'Nesachim'), neither, is 'Chamishah'.
(d) We reject Rav Ashi's Kashya however - on the grounds that 'Ha
ke'de'Iysa, ve'Ha ke'de'Iysa' (meaning that whereas 'Shenayim' is not fit at
all, 'Chamishah' should not be brought Lechatchilah, but Bedi'eved, one
brings four as a Minchas Nesachim for a ram, and the remainder is Mosar
(because we hold 'Ein K'va li'Nesachim').
(a) When Abaye says 'Im Timtzi Lomar Yesh K'va li'Nesachim, ad Asarah
P'shita Li', he means - that up to ten Lugin, it is obvious what they are
used for: three for a lamb; four a ram; five, to add a sixth Log and use it
for a bull; six for a bull; seven for a lamb and a ram; eight for two rams;
nine for a lamb and a bull, and ten for a ram and a bull.
(b) He is not certain however, what the Din will be in a case where someone
bring eleven Lugin - whether to add a Log and use it for two bulls, or to
use it for a lamb and two rams.
(c) It is not obvious at all that the owner intended to bring two bulls,
which are of the same kind of animal - because as the Nedavah stands, it
still requires another Log, whereas it is ready to be brought for a lamb and
two rams without any addition.
(d) The outcome of the She'eilah is 'Teiku'.
(a) According to Rebbi Akiva in our Mishnah, one can donate wine (but not
oil) - which one pours into the bowl by the south-western Keren, from where
it flows down to the Shitin.
Our Mishnah draws a distinction between partners donating one Isaron of
flour on the one hand, and an Olah, a Shelamim or a bird, on the other - by
forbidding the former, but permitting the latter.
(b) Rebbi Tarfon holds that one can donate oil too. If, he argues - wine can
be brought as a Chovah and as a Nedavah, then so can oil.
(c) According to Rebbi Tarfon - the Kohen takes a Kemitzah from the oil, and
burns it on the Mizbe'ach, and the Shirayim is distributed among the
(d) Rebbi Akiva counters - that one cannot compare the oil, which, when it
comes as a Chovah, is brought together with the Minchah, but not separately,
to the wine, which is brought separately.
(a) Rava extrapolates from our Mishnah - that in the opinion of both Rebbi
Akiva and Rebbi Tarfon, one may donate a Minchas Nesachim (without a Korban)
(b) He learns this - from the fact that they only discuss wine and oil on
their own. Clearly, they agree that there is no problem about bringing a
full Minchas Nesachim independently.
(c) We might have thought otherwise - because the Torah lists five kinds of
Minchas Nedavah, ostensibly to preclude other Menachos from being brought as
(d) Rava therefore teaches us - that this is indeed the case with regard to
S'tam, but not where he specifically donates a Minchas Nesachim.
(a) The five Menachos that are incorporated in Minchah S'tam are - So'les,
Machavas, Marcheshes, and Chalos and Rekikin (of a Minchas Ma'afeh Tanur).
(b) 'Revuchah' is not counted as a sixth Minchah - because it cannot be
brought as a Nedavah, only as part of the Korban Todah.
(a) We try to prove from the Pasuk ...
***** Hadran Alach 'he'Menachos ve'ha'Nesachim' *****
1. ... in Vayikra "Takriv Minchah" - that Shutfim cannot bring a Minchah.
(b) We counter the second proof from the Pasuk in Vayikra "Yakriv Korbano",
and the first proof, from the Pasuk there "le'Minchoseichem". So we finally
learn from the word "Nefesh" (in Vayikra) - that Shutfim cannot bring a
2. ... in Pinchas "le'Oloseichem" - that they can bring an Olah.
(c) Rebbi in a Beraisa learns from ...
1. ... "Asher Yakrivu la'Hashem - that Shutfim can bring animal Korbanos,
and from ...
(d) Rebbi Yitzchak learns from the fact ...
2. ... "Nefesh" that they cannot bring a Minchah.
1. ... that the Torah writes 'Nefesh' by a Minchah - that, seeing as it is
usually a poor man who brings a Korban Minchah, when he does, Hashem reckons
as if he had given Him his soul.
2. ... that the Torah prescribes five different kinds of Minchah ('Chamishah
Miynei Tigun') - how much Hashem appreciates the poor man's donation, like a
king who instructs his friend (whom he knows to be a poor man) who is
preparing a Se'udah for him, to prepare him five different kinds of fried
dishes, to increase his pleasure.
***** Perek Harei Alai Isaron *****
(a) Someone who undertakes to donate an Isaron brings one Isaron, says our
Mishnah. In a case where he ...
1. ... specifies 'Esronos' - he brings two.
(b) Since he may well not have said sixty Esronos - he stipulates that
whatever he specified originally, constitutes his Chovah, and the rest, a
2. ... claims that he specified how many Esronos he would bring, but forgot
what he said - he brings sixty Esronos.
(c) According to the Tana Kama, someone who declared that he will bring a
Minchah, may bring any of the five that we listed a little earlier. Rebbi
Yehudah maintains - that he must bring a Minchas So'les, because it is the
pick of the Menachos.
(d) A person who ...
1. ... declares that he will bring 'Menachos' or 'Miynei Menachos' - must
bring two of any one of the five kinds of Menachos.
2. ... claims that he specified which Minchah or Miyn Minchah he would
bring, but cannot remember what he said - must bring all five kinds.
(a) And finally, the Tana Kama rules that someone who claims that he
specified a Minchah of Esronim, but cannot remember what he said - must
bring sixty Esronim.
(b) According to Rebbi, he must bring all the Esronin from one to sixty
(i.e. one consisting of one Isaron, one of two, one of three ... ) -
because, based on the fact that he goes after the fixing of the K'li and
having said 'Minchah', he must bring whatever he undertook, in one K'li, no
less and no more. This obligates him to bring every possibility in a
(a) We ask on the Mishnah's first two rulings 'Yavi Echad', 'Yavi
Shetayim' - that it is obvious that 'Isaron' means one, and 'Esronos' (by
virtue of the principle 'Miy'ut Rabim, Shenayim'), two.
(b) The Tana nevertheless sees it fit to insert them - because they serve as
an introduction to the third ruling 'Pirashti, ve'Eino Yode'a Mah Pirashti,
Yavi Shishim Isaron' ...
(c) ... which Chizkiyah establishes like Rebbi - who holds in the equivalent
case in the Seifa 'Yavi Menachos shel Shishim Esronos me'Echad ve'ad
(d) By establishing the Mishnah when the Noder said 'Pirashti Esronos, Aval
Lo Kava'tim bi'Cheli' - Rebbi Yochanan is able to establish the Mishnah like
Rebbi (because his ruling in the Seifa is based on the fact that the Noder
did fix the Minchah in a K'li [as we explained in the Mishnah]).