ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Nedarim 11
NEDARIM 11 - dedicated anonymously in honor of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, and in
honor of those who study the Dafyomi around the world.
(a) Rebbi Meir learns from the T'nai of the B'nei Gad and the B'nei Re'uven
that every stipulation requires a T'nai Kaful (a double condition). The
underlying reason for that is - because he holds 'mi'Ch'lal La'av *I* Atah
Shomei'a Hen' (and vice-versa) meaning that we do not infer a 'Yes' under
one set of circumstances, from a 'No' under the opposite set (i.e.
everything must be said explicitly).
(b) That precludes him from being the author of our Mishnah - where
'la'Chulin Lo Ochal Lach' is valid by inference, as we explained earlier.
(c) Rebbi Meir agrees - that a T'nai Kaful is not required by Isurin (and it
is only by Mamon that he requires it).
(d) Nevertheless, he cannot be the author of our Mishnah, which speaks about
Nedarim, which is an Isur - because Nedarim incorporate Mamon too, since a
Neder is only effective on an object, as we explained earlier.
(a) Rebbi Yehudah argues with Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa in Gitin - where he
says that when someone divorces his wife because she made Nedarim, he does
not require a T'nai Kaful (to add that, had she not made Nedarim, he would
not divorce her).
(b) Rebbi Chanina ben Gamliel also argues with Rebbi Meir. Nevertheless, we
prefer to establish our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah - because his name
already appears there.
(c) Our Sugya opens with the statement 'Savruhah Mai la'Chulin, Lo Chulin' -
which we would normally interpret to be a 'Havah Amina' (an initial
contention), from which we will later retract. But that is not the case
here. *This* initial contention remains intact throughout the Sugya.
(a) We just established the Reisha of our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah. We
reconcile this with the fact that he is the author of the Seifa, too - by
establishing the entire Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah, and the Seifa merely
comes to clarify the Reisha (' ... Divrei Rebbi Yehudah, she'Rebbi Yehudah
Omer, ha'Omer Yerushalayim, Lo Amar K'lum').
(b) The author of the rest of that section of Mishnah 'ke'Imra', 'ke'Dirim',
'ke'Eitzim ... ' - must also be Rebbi Yehudah, because 'ke'Imra',
'ke'Dirim', 'ke'Eitzim ... ' have exactly the same Din as ki'Yerushalayim.
(c) Our Mishnah and the Beraisa which quotes Rebbi Yehudah as saying
'ha'Omer ki'Yerushalayim, Lo Amar K'lum ad she'Yidor be'Davar ha'Kareiv
bi'Yerushalayim' - are in conflict; it is in fact, a Machlokes Tana'im as to
what Rebbi Yehudah holds.
(d) The basis of their Machlokes is - whether 'ki'Yerushalayim' refers to
the Korbanos in Yerushalayim (the Tana of our Mishnah), or whether it refers
to the wood and the stones of its buildings (the Tana of the Beraisa).
(a) It is obvious that if someone says 'Chulin, ha'Chulin or ke'Chulin
she'Ochal Lach' that this is not a Neder. Neither is 'Chulin ... she'Lo
Ochal Lach' (despite the inference 'she'Ochal Lach, Korban') - because the
author of this Beraisa is Rebbi Meir, who holds 'mi'Ch'lal La'av *I* Ata
The Ra'avad answers the previous Kashya by amending the Lashon.
(b) The problem with the Seifa 'la'Chulin she'Ochal Lach, Asur' is - that it
would appear to be Asur only because of 'mi'Ch'lal La'av ... ', with which
Rebbi Meir does not agree.
(c) We cannot answer that this is not really a case of 'mi'Ch'lal La'av Ata
Shomei'a Hen', because 'Lo Chulin' is synonymous with 'Korban' - seeing as
we established the previous Mishnah (which also uses this wording) like
Rebbi Yehudah (and not like Rebbi Meir) because he holds 'mi'Ch'lal La'av
Ata Shomei'a Hen'.
(d) The most convenient solution to this Kashya would be - to erase this
section from the Beraisa.
'*la'Chulin* she'Ochal Lach' - we now read '*la'Chalin* she'Ochal Lach'
(meaning Chalos Todah), removing the case from the realm of 'mi'Ch'lal La'av
(a) In a Mishnah later, Rebbi Meir validates 'la'Korban Lo Ochal Lach'.
Bearing in mind that Rebbi holds 'mi'Ch'lal La'av *I* Ata Shomei'a Hen',
Rebbi Aba explains this statement to mean 'le'Korban Yehei, Lefichach Lo
(b) Despite the fact that throughout the Sugya, we have assumed 'la'Chulin'
to mean 'Lo Chulin', Rebbi Aba nevertheless explains Rebbi Meir in this
way - because 'la'Chulin' is actually ambiguous; so whenever possible, we
explain it in such a way that the Neder should take effect.
(c) The problem this presents on the Seifa of the Beraisa is - why the Tana
then states there 'la'Chulin (or 'la'Chalin) Lo Ochal Lach, Mutar'? Why can
we not explain that case too, like Rebbi Aba (in order to conform with the
(d) We only ask from Rebbi Aba on the Beraisa, and not on our Mishnah
'la'Korban she'Ochal Lach', which we established categorically not like
Rebbi Meir - because, whereas 'Lo Ochal Lach, Mutar' lends itself to this
explanation, 'she'Ochal Lach' does not.
(a) We could answer that the Tana of our Beraisa agrees with Rebbi Meir
regarding 'mi'Ch'lal La'av *I* Ata Shomei'a Hen', he disagrees with the Tana
of the Mishnah (as explained by Rebbi Aba). According to him, 'la'Korban, Lo
Ochal Lach' is no more a Neder than 'la'Chulin Lo Ochal Lach'. Rav Ashi
however, reconciles the two - by differentiating between 'Lo Chulin' (which
would be subject to Rebbi Aba's explanation) and 'la'Chulin', which is not
(because it implies that it is not Chulin, but a Korban, in which case, it
could only be valid if we were to apply the principle 'mi'Ch'lal La'av ...
'). Note: This is Tosfos explanation, according to *our* text; the Ran has a
different text and a different explanation.
Despite the fact that we rule 'mi'Ch'lal La'av Ata Shomei'a Hen' (like Rebbi
Yehudah in our S'tam Mishnah), Shmuel in Gitin instituted a T'nai Kaful in
the Get of a Shechiv Mera (a man on his death-bed); i.e. that the Get should
be valid should he die, but not in the event that he survives (like Rebbi
Meir - because he is afraid of an erring Beis-Din, who holds like Rebbi
Meir, and who will therefore go on invalidate the Get, even in the event of
her husband's recovery (should the T'nai not be doubled).
(b) According to the Ra'avad, who reads 'Chalin', instead of 'Chulin' - if
he would say *'le'Chalin* Lo Ochal Lach', we would explain it like Rebbi
Aba, and the Neder would be valid. The Seifa of the Beraisa however, speaks
when he said *'la'Chalin* Lo Ochal Lach', in which case, Rebbi Aba's
explanation is not applicable.
(c) According to this explanation, we will have to read the middle case in
the Beraisa 'le'Chalin she'Ochal Lach, Asur', and the Seifa 'la'Chalin Lo
Ochal Lach, Mutar'. The Chidush in the former case will be - that even
though he concluded his declaration with a lenient-sounding phrase, *the
Neder is valid*; and in the latter case - that even though he concluded with
a stringent-sounding one, it is *not*.
(a) We learn from the Pasuk "ve'Dam Zevachecha Yishafech, ve'ha'Basar
Tochel" - that once the blood of a Korban has been sprinkled, the flesh
becomes permitted to the owner (or to the Cohen).
(b) We therefore refute the initial version of Rami bar Chama's She'eilah
(what will be the Din if someone declares 'Harei Alai ki'B'sar Zivchei
Sh'lamim le'Achar Z'rikas Damim') - on the grounds of what we just said:
that, seeing as he was Matfis on a Davar ha'Mutar, his Neder is invalid,
dispensing with the She'eilah.
(c) The correct version of Rami bar Chama's She'eilah - is regarding a
person who has before him a piece of Sh'lamim meat after the Z'rikas Damim
and a piece of Chulin, and who then says 'Zeh ka'Zeh'.
(d) The She'eilah is - whether he is being Matfis on the Korban in its
current state (when it is a Davar ha'Mutar), or in original state (when it
was a Davar ha'Asur).
(a) If he was Matfis a Davar Mutar (once the Z'rikah has taken place), his
Neder is not valid on account of the fact that the flesh of the Korban
remains forbidden to Temei'im, and because of the Chazeh ve'Shok, which
remain forbidden to Zarim - because these are not forbidden directly through
his original Neder (which forbade the entire animal to anyone before its
Sh'chitah), but due to the subsequent Isurim placed on it by the Torah'.
Consequently, it is a 'Davar ha'Asur' and not a 'Davar ha'Nadur', and the
Neder is not valid.
(b) The common denominator between someone who is Matfis ... 1. the T'rumas
Lachmei Todah and 2. the meat of a Bechor (both after the Z'rikas Damim);
3. Chalas Aharon or his Terumah - is that, like the previous case, they are
all 'Davar ha'Asur' and not 'Davar ha'Nadur'.