ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Nedarim 68
NEDARIM 68 (25 Elul) - dedicated by Mrs. G. Turkel (Rabbi Kornfeld's grandmother), an
exceptional woman with an iron will, who loved and respected the study of Torah.
Today is the Shloshim following her passing. Tehei Nafshah Tzerurah bi'Tzror
(a) Tana de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael learns from the Pasuk "Bein Ish le'Ishto, Bein Av
le'Bito" - that a Na'arah ha'Me'urasah needs to annul the Nedarim of the Arusah
together with her father?
Tana de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael learns that the Arus can annul the Nedarim which the
Arusah made before the betrothal - from a S'vara, since he can only annul them in
conjunction with her father. (It is unclear however, why we cannot learn it from
"ve'Im Beis Iyshah Nadarah", like we learned at the end of the previous Amud.)
(b) He knows that this Pasuk is referring to a Na'arah ha'Me'urasah and not to a
Nesu'ah - because the same Pasuk contains the phrase "bi'Ne'urehah Beis Avihah".
(c) Tana de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael learns from "ve'Im Hayo Sihyeh le'Ish" (from which
Rabah derived that both the Arus and the father need to annul the Arusah's Nedarim) -
that the 'second Havayah is compared to the first', like Rabah (which will be
(d) The Rabbanan (who argue with Tana de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael) learn the Hekesh of the
second Kidushin to the first - from the same Pasuk (in addition to their basic Din
that the Arus and the father both need to annul the Arusah's Nedarim).
(a) Rabah (or Rava) learns from the Pasuk "Bein Ish le'Ishto ... " - that the husband
may only annul Nedarim which affect their personal relationship (which will be
explained in the following Perek).
1. Tana de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael learns this - from the same Pasuk (in addition to his
basic Din that the Arus and the father both need to annul the Arusah's Nedarim).
(c) The Sifri learns from the Hekesh of "Bein Ish le'Ishto Bein Av le'Bito"
(comparing a man's daughter to his wife) - that a father is permitted to annul only
those categories of Nedarim that a husband is permitted to annul.
2. We know that, in addition, a husband can annul Nedarim which cause his wife pain -
from the Torah, which explicitly writes "Le'anos Nafesh".
(d) The Rambam however - is of the opinion that a father may annul all of his
(a) We ask a She'eilah whether an Arus cuts the Neder or whether he weakens it -
meaning that we are unsure whether the Hafarah of the Arus annuls half of the
Arusah's Neder quantitatively or qualitatively.
In view of the Sugya in Shevu'os, where Rav Papa rules that Konamos do not require a
Shiur, there are three possible reasons why we mention specifically two olives. One
of them is because of the opinion (albeit unaccepted) cited there which maintains
that even by Konamos, when it comes to eating, one will not receive Malkos for less
than a k'Zayis - the second, because our Sugya is talking about Shevu'os too, and
Shevu'os do require a Shiur, according to everyone, and the third, because Malkos in
our Sugya, refers not to Malkos, but to a Korban (which in many cases of Neder, one
is obligated to bring), and that too, requires a Shiur.
(b) The same She'eilah will apply to the father - should he annul his half of the
(c) The ramifications of this She'eilah are when the woman made a Neder not to eat
two olives, the Arus annulled the Neder and she went and ate them. If his Hafarah
cuts the Neder, then he would have nullified only one of the olives, whilst the Neder
on the other one remained intact, in which case, she will receive Malkos for having
contravened her Neder. Whereas if he weakened the Neder (on both olives), the Neder
will remain intact, and she will not receive Malkos for having contravened it.
(d) Despite the fact that, if the Arus cut the Neder, he would have removed one of
the two olives, she would nevertheless need to eat both olives in order to receive
Malkos - because there is no way that one could have known which of the two olives
his Hafarah had covered.
(a) The Tana of the Beraisa lists all the cases where one of the two partners (the
father and the Arus) dies: 1. 'Lo Shama ha'Ba'al Kodem she'Yamus, O she'Shama
ve'Hefer O she'Shama ve'Shasak u'Meis Bo ba'Yom ... Nisroknah Reshus le'Av'. The two
cases when the father cannot annul his daughter's Nedarim are - 'Shama (ha'Ba'al)
ve'Kiyem' and 'Shama ve'Shasak u'Meis be'Yom she'le'Acharav'.
(b) If, in the last of the listed cases, the Arus died on the following day - the
father will not be able to annul his daughter's Nedarim.
(c) Despite the fact that if the Arus annulled the Neder and then died, the father is
obligated to annul the part of the deceased Arus, as well as his own, the same
distinction (regarding annulling the Neder and dying on the same day or on the next)
- will not apply as in the previous case. Either way, he will be able to annul the
Nedarim, because, unlike in the previous case, in no way can we refer to the Neder as
having been upheld by the Arus.
(d) We prove this from the Seifa, where the Tana says 'Aval Im Shama ve'Kiyem, O
Shama ve'Shasak u'Meis be'Yom she'Acharav, Ein Yachol Lehafer'. If the same
distinction would apply to 'Shama ve'Hefer', why did the Tana not include it in the
list, particularly as it would be a bigger Chidush than the two listed cases (seeing
as he did not uphold it, as we just explained)?
(a) 2. 'Shama Avihah ve'Hefer Lah ve'Lo Hispik Ba'al Lishmo'a ad she'Meis ha'Av', Zu
Hi she'Shaninu Meis ha'Av Lo Nisroknu Reshus le'Ba'al'. The reason that the Tana
mentions 've'Lo Hispik Ba'al Lishmo'a' is - because a Neder that one of the parties
did not know about during the second one's lifetime is weakened. In the previous
case, the Tana specifically mentioned that he is speaking even when both parties
heard about it; nevertheless, (despite the fact that the Neder is still in full
force) the father is permitted to annul it; here, he teaches us that even though the
Arus did not get to know about the Neder before the father died, he is nevertheless
not permitted to annul it.
(b) 3. 'Shama Ba'alah ve'Hefer Lah ve'Lo Hispik ha'Av Lishmo'a ad she'Meis ha'Ba'al,
Zu Hi she'Shaninu, Meis 'ha'Ba'al, Nisroknah Reshus le'Av'. The Tana mention here
've'Lo Hispik ha'Av Lishmo'a' (in spite of what we just said in the previous case -
that this is more reason to say that the other partner should be able to annul the
Neder) - because one can also say the opposite (like Beis Hillel later in case 5.);
that because the Neder has been weakened, the father does not have sufficient to
(c) 4. 'Shama Ba'alah ve'Hefer Lah ve'Lo Hispik ha'Av Lishmo'a ad she'Meis, Ein
ha'Ba'al Yachol Lehafer, she'Ein ha'Ba'al Meifer Ela be'Shutfus'. The Chidush of this
case (as opposed to the case of 'Shama Avihah ... ', case 2.) is - that despite the
fact that the Neder was weakened by the father's not having known about it before he
died, in addition to the fact that the Arus had already annulled the Neder, thereby
weakening it further, the Arus may still not annul it; whereas in the earlier case,
the annulment of the father fell away with his death, thereby leaving the Neder fully
intact (making it more obvious that the Arus cannot annul the Neder).
(d) The Tana does not conclude 'Lo Nisroknah ... ', like in the earlier case -
because in the earlier case, where the father knew about the Neder and even though he
nullified it, his Hafarah became nullified, it is feasible to say 'Nisroknah',
whereas in this case, where the father had not been aware of the Neder prior to his
death, the term 'Nisroknah' would be out of place (and the only reason that the Arus
cannot annul the Neder is because 'Ein ha'Ba'al Meifer Ela be'Shutfus').
(a) We learned above that 'Shama Avihah ve'Hefer Lah ve'Lo Hispik Ba'al Lishmo'a ad
she'Meis ha'Av', Zu Hi she'Shaninu Meis ha'Av Lo Nisroknu Reshus le'Ba'al'. This
cannot be due to the fact that the father had first weakened the Neder by annulling
it, but that, had the Neder remained fully intact, the Arus would have been able to
annul it - because if the Arus could annul the Neder when the father has not annulled
it, he would also be able to annul it when he has, like we see from the case that
follows it, where the father under exactly similar circumstances, is permitted to
annul the Neder even when the Arus has already done so.
(b) It is not possible to distinguish between the father and the Arus when it comes
to annulling a weakened Neder (to permit the former and forbid the latter) - because
we see from the last case, where Beis Hillel forbids the father to annul the weakened
Neder, that a father is subject to the restrictions of a weakened Neder too.
(a) 5. 'Shama Avihah ve'Hefer Lah, ve'Lo Hispik ha'Ba'al Lishmo'a ad she'Meis, Chozer
ha'Av u'Meifer Chelko shel Ba'al'. Beis Shamai say 'Chozer ha'Av u'Meifer ... ', not
because the father is obligated to repeat the Hafarah - but because having annulled
his own part, he is also now obligated to annul the part of the Arus.
(b) Rebbi Nasan explains that this is the opinion of Beis Shamai, but that according
to Beis Hillel, the father cannot annul the Neder - because when the Arus died, the
father was left with a weakened Neder (due to the father's having annulled it), which
is not now sufficiently significant for the father to inherit, and which cannot
therefore not be annulled.
(c) The basis of their Machlokes is - whether one of the two partners cuts his part
of the Neder (Beis Shamai - in which case, the Arus' part remains intact), or weakens
the entire Neder (Beis Hillel - in which case, the part of the Arus has been weakened
by the father's annulment).
(d) By citing this Machlokes - we have resolved our original She'eilah (whether the
one partner cuts the Neder or weakens it), which has now turned out to be a Machlokes
Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel.
(a) In the case of 'Shama Ba'alah ve'Hefer Lah ... ' (case 3.), even Beis Hillel
agree that the father can annul the Neder, even though the Arus (apparently) weakened
the Neder when he annulled it prior to his death - because, seeing as the Arus death
negates his Hafarah (unlike Beis Hillel's case, where the father who annulled the
Neder, is still alive). Consequently, the Neder is not weakened at all.
(b) If, in the last case, after the Arus dies, the girl became betrothed again on the
same day - Beis Hillel agree that the Arus together with the father, can annul the