ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous dafPesachim 77
(a) We learn from
1. ... "be'Mo'ado" (mentioned in connection with the Tamid and the Pesach) -
that they override Shabbos and Tum'ah.
(b) We cannot learn ...
2. ... "be'Mo'adeichem" (mentioned in connection with the other Yamim-Tovim)
- that all other Korbenos Tzibur likewise override Shabbos and Tum'ah.
3. ... "Vayedaber Moshe es Mo'adei Hashem El B'nei Yisrael" - that the same
applies to the Omer plus the Korbenos that accompany it, and the Sh'tei
ha'Lechem and the Korbenos that accompany them.
1. ... all the other Korbanos from the Tamid and the Pesach - since they
each have a Chumra, the one is daily, the other carries with it a Chiyuv
2. ... the Omer and the Sh'tei ha'Lechem (which only come to permit Chadash,
the former *outside* the Beis Hamikdash, the latter *inside* it) from the
other Korbanos (which come to atone).
3. ... the other Korbanos from the Omer and the Sh'tei ha'Lechem - precisely
*because* the latter come to permit (Chadash), whereas the former do not.
(a) 'Tum'ah Dechuyah Hi be'Tzibur' means that the Torah only permits Tum'ah
be'Tzibur with difficulty, *because* there are no Tehorim, and *when* there
are no Tehorim. Consequently, it requires the Tzitz to atone for it.
(b) The only Tana to hold 'Tum'ah Hutrah Hi be'Tzibur' - is Rebbi Yehudah.
(a) Rebbi Shimon proves from the Kohen Gadol (who served in the Kodesh
Kodshim on Yom Kipur wearing the four white garments - without the Tzitz)
that the Tzitz atones even when it is not being worn (as opposed to Rebbi
Yehudah who maintains that it only atones as long as the Kohen Gadol is
actueally wearing it).
Assuming that our Stam Mishnah (which permits bringing the Omer and the
Sh'tei ha'Lechem be'Tum'ah) holds 'Tum'ah Dechuyah Hi be'Tzibur' and 'Ein
ha'Tzitz Meratzeh Al Achilos' - the Gemara thinks that the author could not
then be Rebbi Yehoshua, who says 'Im Ein Basar, Ein Dam'. Because, how could
the Tana of our Mishnah then write Chamishah Devarim Ba'in be'Tum'ah? Since,
according to him, the Tzitz does not atone for the parts of the Korban that
are eaten, and if the parts that are eaten are not valid ('Im Ein Basar'),
then neither is the blood ('Ein Dam')?
(b) Rebbi Yehudah's replies that Yom Kipur (which is entirely Avodas Tzibur)
is different, since 'Tum'ah Hutrah be'Tzibur (and does not therefore require
the atonement of the Tzitz).
(c) 'ha'Tzitz Meratzeh Al Achilos' means - that the Tzitz atones even for
the parts of the Korban that are eaten which became Tamei e.g. the flesh, to
permit them to be eaten.
(d) The only Tana to hold 'ha'Tzitz Meratzeh Al Achilos' is Rebbi Elazar.
(a) Rebbi Yehoshua learns from the Pasuk "ve'Asisa Olosecha *ha'Basar
ve'he'Dam*" - 'Im Ein Dam Ein Basar, Im Ein Basar Ein Dam'.
(b) Rebbi Eliezer learns from the Pasuk "ve'Dam Zevachecha Yishafech" -
'Dam, Af al Pi she'Ein Basar'.
(c) Rebbi Eliezer learns from "ve'Asisa Olosecha *ha'Basar ve'he'Dam*" -
that one throws the limbs of the Korban across the small space that divided
the ramp from the Mizbei'ach, just as one throws (i.e. sprinkles) the blood.
(d) Rebbi Yehoshua disagrees with Rebbi Eliezer's Derashah because the Pasuk
continues "ve'ha'Basar Tochel". This prompts him to use the Pasuk to
correlate the Basar with the Dam (as in 5a.), rather than to learn "ve'Dam
Zevachecha Yishafech" independently, as Rebbi Eliezer does.
(a) We would not be able to learn that both the blood and the flesh are
1. ... by the Shelamim from the Olah, according to Rebbi Yehoshua - because
the Olah has the stringency that it is entirely burnt.
(b) Rebbi Eliezer learns from "ve'ha'Basar Tochel" - that the meat only
becomes permitted after the blood has been sprinkled.
2. ... by the Olah from the Shelamim - for precisely the opposite reason;
because by the Shelamim, there are *two* Achilos (Achilos Mizbei'ach &
Achilas Ba'lim) whereas by the Olah there is only *one*.
(c) He learns 'Dam, Af al Pi she'Ein Basar' from the same Pasuk as he learns
the previous Derashah - because otherwise, the Torah should have written
"ha'Basar Tochel, ve'Dam Zevachecha Yishafech" (placing the Basar before the
Dam, as it did in the Pasuk "ve'Asisa Olosecha ha'Basar ve'ha'Dam"). By
reversing the order, it enables us to learn both Derashos.
(a) Rebbi Yehoshua learns that the meat is forbidden until the blood has
been sprinkled, from a Kal va'Chomer from the Emurim (which *do not* render
the Korban Pasul by their absence - yet when they are there, they must be
brought before the rest of the Korban may be eaten); How much more so the
blood, which *does* render the Korban Pasul by its when it is not there,
must certainly be sprinkled before the Korban may be eaten.
(b) Rebbi Eliezer agrees with the Kal va'Chomer; only he says 'Milsa de'Asya
be'Kal va'Chomer, Tarach ve'Kasav Lah Kera' (whereas, in Rebbi Yehoshua's
opinion, we only say this if there is *no* Derashah to make, but not if
(a) We reconcile at least Zivchei Shalmei Tzibur with Rebbi Yehoshua - by
saying that he holds "Tzitz Meratzeh Al ha'Olin'.
(b) The Kemitzah of the Omer is comparable to the blood of a regular Korban
(since, like the blood, it is given to Hashem). However, there are no
leftovers to go on the Mizbei'ach - like the Emurin of a Korban, and Rebbi
Yehoshua requires leftovers, besides the blood.
(a) So we try to establish our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehoshua by
differentiating between Zevachim and Menachos: Zevachim, which consist of
three parts, require blood and Emurim to remain; Menachos, which do not have
Emurim to begin with, do not require that Emurim remain.
(b) We reject this however, on the basis of the Mishnah in Menachos 'Nitme'u
Shireha ... ke'Midas Rebbi Yehoshua, Pesulah' - meaning that according to
Rebbi Yehoshua, who holds 'Im Ein Basar, Ein Dam', if the rest of the
Minchah (after the Kemitzah has been taken) becomes Tamei, the Minchah is
Pasul. This proves that Yehoshua does not differentiate between Zevachim and
(c) Rebbi Yossi says in the Beraisa 'Ro'eh Ani es Divrei Rebbi Eliezer
bi'Menachos u'vi'Zevachim, ve'Divrei Rebbi Yehoshua be'Zevachim
u'vi'Menachos. In any event, we see that Rebbi Yehoshua argues with Rebbi
Eliezer by Menachos as well as by Zevachim.
(a) If Rebbi Yehoshua too, holds 'Tzitz Meratzeh Al ha'Olin ve'Al
ha'Achilos' - then when the Mishnah in Menachos says 'Nitme'u Shireha, Avdu
Shireha ... *ke'Midas Rebbi Yehoshua Pesulah'*, it refers, not to Nitme'u,
but to Avdu (or Nisrefu), since the Tzitz only atones for the Pesul of
Tum'ah, but not for that of other Pesulim.
(b) As far as Rebbi Eliezer is concerned, the Tana would not need to mention
that 'Nitme'u' is Kasher - because if Avdu (where the Shirayim are *not*
there, is Kasher) how much more so Nitme'u (where they *are*)! So the Tana
must mention Nitme'u, to teach us that even Nitme'u is Pasul according to
Rebbi Yehoshua, refuting the contention that 'ke'Midas Rebbi Yehoshua,
Pasul', refers only to 'Avud' (and 'Saruf', but not to 'Nitme'u').
(c) The second proof (to reject the suggestion that according to Rebbi
Yehoshua 'Tzitz Meratzeh Al ha'Olin ve'Al ha'Achilos') - is from the
Beraisa, which quotes Rebbi Yehoshua as saying 'Kol ha'Zevachim
she'ba'Torah, Bein she'Nitma Basar ve'Chelev Kayam ... Zorek es ha'Dam. Aval
Nitme'u Tarvayhu, Lo', which teaches us that, according to Rebbi Yehoshua,
'Ein ha'Tzitz Meratzeh Lo Al ha'Olin ve'Lo Al ha'Achilos.
(a) Perhaps our Mishnah does indeed go like Rebbi Yehoshua. True, Rebbi
Yehoshua requires *two* leftovers, even by Menachos. However, that is only
Lechatchilah, but Bedi'eved, even *one* will suffice - conforming with the
Tana of our Mishnah.
(b) We know that Rebbi Yehoshua, on principle, makes such a distinction -
from the Beraisa, where he says 'Nitma Basar O she'Nifsal O she'Yatza Chutz
li'Kela'im ... Rebbi Yehoshua Omer, Lo Yizrok ... u'Modeh ... she'Im Zarak,
(c) 'Chamishah Devarim Ba'in be'Tum'ah' - implies Lechatchilah, so how can
we establish it be Bedi'eved in order to establish it like Rebbi Yehoshua?
(d) We finally reconcile our Mishnah with Rebbi Yehoshua (at the same time
as resolving the contradiction that we just created in Rebbi Yehoshua's own
words) - by establishing Rebbi Yehoshua by a Korban Yachid (which he
invalidates Lechatchilah without Shirayim) but Kasher Bedi'eved (because of
Ritzuy Tzitz); whereas our Mishnah, (which relies on Ritzuy Tzitz even
Lechatchilah) is speaking about a Korban Tzibur.