POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Zevachim 87
ZEVACHIM 87 - Dedicated to the leaders and participants in the Dafyomi
shiurim at the Young Israel of New Rochelle, by Andy & Nancy Neff
1) WHEN IS MEAT ON THE "MIZBE'ACH" CONSIDERED "ME'UKAL"?
(a) (Rabah): If limbs came off (the Ma'arachah) before
midnight and were returned after midnight, the following
midnight is Ikul (considered final consumption (for
2) "LINAH" ON TOP OF THE "MIZBE'ACH"
(b) (Rav Chisda): Dawn is Ikul.
(c) (Bei Rav): Rav Chisda learns from a Kal va'Chomer -
midnight does not Posel on account of Linah (Eimurim may
be offered until dawn), yet it makes Ikul - dawn is Posel
on account of Linah, all the more so it makes Ikul!
(d) If they came off before midnight and were returned after
dawn, the following midnight is Ikul;
(e) (Rav Chisda): They will never have Ikul (until they
(f) Objection (Rav Yosef): Why do they assume that midnight
makes Ikul only for things on the Mizbe'ach - perhaps it
makes Ikul everywhere!
(g) (Chachamim of Eretz Yisrael): Rav Yosef is correct (it
makes Ikul everywhere).
(h) (R. Chiya bar Aba): If they came off before midnight and
were returned after midnight, it is forbidden to benefit
from them, there is no Me'ilah.
(i) (Bar Kapara): If they came off before midnight and were
returned after midnight, there is no Me'ilah.
(j) Question (Rav Papa): Chachamim of Eretz Yisrael, R. Chiya
bar Aba and Bar Kapara all agree with Rav Yosef - what do
Rabah and Rav Chisda argue about (surely, they also agree
with Rav Yosef)!
(k) Answer (Abaye): They argue about fatty limbs (even when
they become hard, this is not Ikul, for the fat prevents
them from becoming ashes.)
(a) Question (Rava): Does Linah take effect on top of the
3) CAN "KLEI SHARES" BE "MEKADESH"?
1. Question: What is the case?
(b) Answer (Rabah): Linah does not take effect on top of the
i. Suggestion: The limbs are still on top of the
2. Answer: The case is, after Linah on the Mizbe'ach,
it came down;
ii. Rejection: If regular Nosar, which was Lan on
the floor of the Azarah, came on the Mizbe'ach,
Lo Yered - all the more so, something which was
Lan on the Mizbe'ach Lo Yered (this would be
obvious to Rava!)
3. Perhaps we compare it to Linah on the Shulchan:
i. (Mishnah): Even if Lechem ha'Panim was on the
Shulchan many days, we are not concerned.
4. Or, perhaps we compare it to Linah on the ground.
(c) Question: Did Rava accept the answer?
(d) Answer: We learn from the following (that he did not):
1. If limbs were Lan in the Azarah, they may be offered
2. If they were Lan on the Mizbe'ach, they may be
offered at any time;
3. (Rabah): If they were brought down, Ya'alu;
4. (Rava): If they were brought down, Lo Ya'alu.
(a) (Mishnah): Just as the Mizbe'ach is Mekadesh...
(b) (Beraisa) Question: "Kol ha'Noge'a ba'Mizbe'ach
(Yikdash)" - only teaches that the Mizbe'ach is Mekadesh
(what touches it) - what is the source that the ramp is
1. Answer: "Es ha'Mizbe'ach" (Shitah Mekubetzes - :El
ha'Mizbe'ach Lo Ya'alu").
(c) Version #1 - Rashi - Question (Reish Lakish): Do Klei
Shares Mekadesh Pesulim (so that they cannot be
(d) Answer (R. Yochanan - Mishnah): Just as the Mizbe'ach and
ramp Mekadesh what is fit for them, also Klei Shares.
(e) Clarification of question (Reish Lakish): I meant, do
they Mekadesh Pesulim to be offered l'Chatchilah!
(f) Answer (R. Yochanan - Mishnah): If Pesulim did Kabalah
and Zerikah (was done, (ha'Eimurim) Lo Yerdu).
4) AIRSPACE OF THE "MIZBE'ACH"
1. Suggestion: This means, both Kabalah and Zerikah
were done by Pesulim (but if Kesherim did Zerikah,
the Eimurim are offered l'Chatchilah, because the
Kli Shares was Mekadesh the blood to be offered
(g) Rejection: No, it means, Kabalah *or* Zerikah was done by
(h) Version #2 - Tosfos - Question (Reish Lakish): If Pasul
Kodshim are in a Kli Shares (on the Mizbe'ach), is this
Mekadesh them (does Kedushas Mizbe'ach pass through the
(i) Answer (R. Yochanan - Mishnah): Just as the Mizbe'ach and
ramp Mekadesh what is fit for them, also Klei Shares.
(j) Clarification of question (Reish Lakish): I meant, are
Klei Shares (*not* on the Mizbe'ach) Mekadesh Pesulim to
be offered l'Chatchilah? (The Mishnah does not prove
this, perhaps it discusses Kelim on the Mizbe'ach.)
(k) Answer (R. Yochanan - Mishnah): If Pesulim did Kabalah
and Zerikah (was done, Lo Yered).
1. Inference: 'Zerikah was done' connotes b'Diavad -
l'Chatchilah, since Kabalah was Pasul, Zerikah
should not have been done (even though the blood was
in a Kli Shares)!
(l) Rejection: No, it means, Kabalah *or* Zerikah was done by
Pesulim (ha'Eimurim Lo Yerdu - but if Kabalah was by
Pesulim, we are Zorek l'Chatchilah, for the Kli is
Mekadesh the blood). (End of Version #2)
(a) Question: Is the airspace above the Mizbe'ach like the
Mizbe'ach (to Mekadesh)?
(b) Answer (Mishnah): Just as the Mitzvah is Mekadesh, the
ramp is Mekadesh;
1. If the airspace is not like the Mizbe'ach, also the
air above the ramp is not (Mekadesh like the) ramp -
if so, Kidush of the ramp would never help, for once
the Kodesh is lifted off the ramp, it has been taken
down from the (Kedushah of) the Mizbe'ach;
(c) Rejection: Really, the airspace is not like the Mizbe'ach
- the case is, the Kodesh (e.g. a limb) was rolled up to
the Mizbe'ach, it was never lifted off the ramp.
2. Once it was Yarad, Lo Ya'aleh!
(d) Question: But there is a gap between the ramp and the
Mizbe'ach (when it was over the gap, it was Yarad)!
(e) Answer: (The limb is more than twice the length of the
gap;) when the majority is over the ramp, it is as if it
is totally over the ramp; when the majority is over the
Mizbe'ach, it is as if it is totally over the Mizbe'ach.
(f) Question: (We do not consider the part of the limb in the
gap by itself, rather, the entire limb has one law -)
this should resolve the (unresolved) question of Rami bar
1. Question (Rami bar Chama): Are Olim (Kodshei
Mizbe'ach) considered connected?
(g) Answer: Indeed, we can say that the airspace is not like
the Mizbe'ach, and Olim are considered connected! (Rami
never resolved his question, for he was also unsure about
airspace of the Mizbe'ach.)
(h) Objection (Rabah bar Rav Chanan): Surely, the airspace is
not like the Mizbe'ach - if it was, how would intent
Chutz li'Zmano Posel Olas ha'Of?!
1. Since it is considered to be on the Mizbe'ach, even
after Linah, Lo Yered;
(i) Answer (Rav Simi Bar Ashi): We can say, the intent was to
take it down the next day, and then Lehaktir (once it was
Yarad, Lo Ya'aleh, this is forbidden).
2. Since Haktarah is permitted at any time, intent for
the next (or any other) day should not Posel!
(j) Question: This is like Rava, who says that Linah applies
on top of the Mizbe'ach;
1. But according to Rabah, who says that Linah does not
apply on top of the Mizbe'ach; also this is
permitted - how can we answer?
(k) Answer: The case is, he intended to take it down before
dawn and Lehaktir the next day (Linah applies, since it
is not on the Mizbe'ach at dawn).