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Zevachim 61

ZEVACHIM 61 - This Daf has been dedicated by Rabbi Dr. Eli Turkel of Ra'anana, Israel, to the memory of his father, Reb Yisrael Shimon ben Shlomo ha'Levi Turkel (Yarhzeit: 10 Av).


1) Rebbi Yirmiyah reconciled the two Beraisos ('be'Sha'as Siluk Ma'sa'os Kodshim Nifsalin', and 'bi'Shenei Mekomos Kodshim Ne'echalin'), by establishing the former by Kodshei Kodshim, and the latter, by Kodshim Kalim (a Kashya on Abaye, according to whom Kodshim Kalim are Pasul). We refute Rebbi Yirmiyah's proof however, by establishing both Beraisos by Kodshim Kalim - the first Beraisa holds like Rebbi Yishmael (like Abaye), the second Beraisa, like the Rabbanan.


(a) Alternatively, both Beraisos could even speak by Kodshei Kodshim, and 'Sh'nei Mekomos' means 1. when the Mishkan is still standing; 2. when they have dismantled it (see Tosfos, Amud Beis DH 'u'le'Achar' and Shitah Mekubetzes), but the Mizbe'ach is still standing in its place; whereas the first Beraisa speaks when the Mizbe'ach has been covered too, and they are already carrying it.

(b) The problem with our text, which reads 'Kodem she'Ya'amidu ha'Levi'im es ha'Mishkan' is - that, bearing in mind that, whenever they camped, Gershon and Merari would put up the Mishkan, before Kehas arrived with the Keilim, it is not feasible for the Mizbe'ach to have been standing before the Mishkan had been set up.

(c) We might answer that however - by establishing the case when a mistake was made and somehow Kehas put up the Mizbe'ach before Gershon and Merari erected the Mishkan.

(d) To reconcile this with the Sugya in 'Eizehu Mekoman', which invalidates a Shelamim that is Shechted before the Kohanim have opened the doors of the Azarah (because Shelamim need 'Pesach Ohel Mo'ed') - we will establish that Sugya specifically by Shelamim (which is Kodshim Kalim), whereas our Sugya is talking about Kodshei Kodshim.

(a) We might have thought that once the Mishkan has been dismantled, the Korban is Pasul - because of 'Yotzei' (leaving ite boundaries).

(b) We learn from the Pasuk "Ve'nasa Ohel Mo'ed" - that even whilst the Mishkan is traveling it is still called 'Ohel Mo'ed', in which case, the Korban has not left its boundaries.




(a) Rav Chisda (or Rav Huna) Amar Rav learns from the three times in the Torah (once in Yisro and twice in Ki Savo) that the Mizbe'ach is described as "Mizbach Avanim" - that the Mizbe'ach in Mishkan Shiloh, by the Bamah in Nov and Giv'on and in the Beis-Hamikdash were all made of stone.

(b) The Beraisa states that the fire that descended from Heaven in the days of ...

1. ... Moshe - only departed when Shlomoh built the Beis-Hamikdash, and the fire that descended from Heaven in the days of ...
2. ... Shlomoh - only departed ('Lo Nistalkah Ela') when King Menasheh removed it.
(c) This poses on Rav, according to whom - it should also have departed, from the time that they built the stone Mizbe'ach in Shiloh.

(d) Initially, we answer that Rav holds like Rebbi Nasan, who says in a Beraisa - that the Mizbe'ach in Shiloh was made of copper, but filled in with stones (see Shitah Mekubetzes).

(a) According to Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak, 'Lo Nistalkah' means 'Lo Nistalkah le'Vatalah', which the Rabbanan explain as 'Shevivin Havah Meshadra' - meaning that whenever they brought Korbanos on the stone Mizbe'ach, flames would emerge from the copper Mizbe'ach (which stood in Shiloh too) and consume them.

(b) According to Rav Papa, it means - that sometimes the fire would descend directly on to the stone Mizbe'ach, and sometimes it would come from the copper Mizbe'ach.

(a) In a Mishnah in Midos, Rebbi Yossi describes how they added on to the Mizbe'ach ha'Olah - when they built the second Beis-Hamikdosh upon their return from Galus Bavel.

(b) They added four Amos on to the south side and four Amos on to the west.

(c) The Mizbe'ach in the first Beis-Hamikdash was twenty-eight by twenty-eight Amos, and the Makom ha'Ma'arachah, twenty by twenty, the corresponding measurements in the second Beis-Hamikdash were - thirty-two by thirty-two Amos and twenty-four by twenty-four Amos.

(a) The reason Rav Yosef gives for this extension is - because of the shortage of space on the Mizbe'ach.

(b) Abaye objected to that however - on the basis of the vastly superior numbers in the era of the first Beis-Hamikdash ("like the sand by the sea-shore") as compared to the second ("forty-one thousand"). So if it was not too small before they went into Galus, why should it be too small after they returned?

(c) Rav Yosef overruled his Talmid's objection however - based on the Chazal that in the second Beis, there was no Heavenly fire to consume the Korbanos (so the Korbanos accumulated, and required more space).

(d) When Ravin arrived from Eretz Yisrael, he quoted Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi, according to whom the extension to the Mizbe'ach was - for Nesachim to flow down via holes bored in it (beside the bowl into which the wine was poured) to the pit that led down to the Shitin.

(a) The Nesachim that were poured on to the Mizbe'ach during the first Beis-Hamikdash - flowed directly from the roof Mizbe'ach into the deep pit at its base.

(b) From the Pasuk "Mizbach Adamah Ta'aseh Li" Shlomoh Hamelech Darshened - that the Mizbe'ach itself should be completely attached to the ground, without holes bored into the ground beneath it for the Nesachim to drain.

(c) In the time of the second Beis-Hamikdash however, the Anshei K'nesses ha'Gedolah Darshened 'Shesiyah ka'Achilah' meaning - that just like 'the food' (the Korbanos) was consumed by the Mizbe'ach, so too should the drink be absorbed by it (negating the previous D'rashah).

(d) And they explained "Mizbach Adamah" to mean - that it must be built directly joined to the ground, and not via archways or on top of tunnels, as we learned earlier.

(a) Initially Rav Yosef interpreted the Pasuk "Va'yachinu ha'Mizbe'ach al Mechonosav" to mean - that the final measurements of the Mizbe'ach were revealed to the Anshei K'nesses ha'Gedolah (but not to Shlomoh Hamelech), in support of Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi's D'rashah.

(b) Rav Yosef himself did indeed just give a different reason to explain the extension to the Mizbe'ach - but that was when, due to his state of health, he was prone to forgetting many things that he had learned. His latter statement was made after his recovery, when he would recall what he had initially learned, and retract his errors.

(c) The problem with Rav Yosef's proof is - that Hashem revealed all the measurements to David Hamelech (and Shmuel), as David is expressly quoted as saying in Divrei Hayamim "ha'Kol bi'Kesav mi'Yad Hashem Alai Hiskil", so how could any measurement have been hidden from Shlomoh and revealed to the Anshei K'nesses ha'Gedolah.

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