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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Zevachim 80

ZEVACHIM 80 (30 Av) - This daf has been dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Esther Chaya Rayzel (Friedman) bas Gershon Eliezer, upon her Yahrzeit and Yom Kevurah, by her daughter and son-in-law, Jeri and Eli Turkel. Esther Friedman was a woman of valor who was devoted to her family and gave of herself unstintingly, inspiring all those around her.

1) Rebbi Elazar again restricts Rebbi Eliezer's ruling ('Im Kareiv Kos Achas ... ') to bringing two cups at a time, and Rebbi Ya'akov establishes the Seifa 'Afilu Karvu Kulan Chutz me'Echad' to mean 'Zug Echad'. Having taught us the Machlokes between Rebbi Eliezer and the Chachamim with regard to ...

  1. ... 'Eivarim', why does the Tana find it necessary to repeat it with regard to 'Kosos'?
  2. ... 'Kosos', why does the Tana find it necessary to repeat it with regard to 'Eivarim'?
(a) The Mishnah in Parah discusses a case where water falls into a jar containing Mei Chatas. Rebbi Eliezer holds 'Yazeh Sh'tei Haza'os'.
What does he mean by that?

(b) What do the Chachamim say?

(c) Assuming that the latter hold 'Yesh Bilah' (as we learned in our Mishnah), what will they hold with regard to ...

  1. ... the Haza'ah having a Shiur?
  2. ... the two Haza'os combining?
(a) Why do we initially assume that Rebbi Eliezer holds 'Yesh Bilah'?

(b) How do we know that he holds 'Haza'ah Tzerichah Shiur'?

(c) In which point does he then argue with the Chachamim?

(d) What problem nevertheless remains?

(a) Resh Lakish declares 'Hacha be'Mai Askinan, she'Nis'arvu Achas'.
What does he mean by that? How does it answer the Kashya?

(b) Rava maintains that Rebbi Eliezer holds 'Haza'ah Ein Tzerichah Shi'ur'. Then on what grounds does he require two Haza'aos?

(a) According to Rav Ashi, Rebbi Eliezer holds 'Ein Bilah'.
What does he hold with regard to 'Haza'ah Tzerichah Shiur'?

(b) On what grounds does he then argue with Rava?

(c) Why does he not emulate Resh Lakish, and establish the case 'she'Nis'arvu Achas be'Achas'?

(d) So how do we know, according to Rav Ashi, that the Tamei was actually sprinkled with the Mei Chatas?

(a) Rebbi in a Beraisa states that according to Rebbi Eliezer, 'Haza'ah Kol-she'Hu Metaheres'.
To which ruling of Rebbi Eliezer is he referring?

(b) What is the basis of Rebbi's statement?

(c) What does Rebbi mean when he says 'Haza'ah Mechtzah Kasher, u'Mechtzah Pasul'?

(d) In what way does this Beraisa pose a Kashya on Resh Lakish?

Answers to questions



(a) In another Beraisa, in connection with 'Nitnin Lema'alah she'Nis'arvu be'Nitnin Lematah' (e.g. the blood of a Chatas with the blood of an Olah), Rebbi Eliezer says 'Yiten Lema'alah, ve'Ro'in ... ve'ha'Tachtonim Alu Lo' (the excerpts from the Beraisa, which we are about to quote, section by section, runs parallel with our Mishnah. See Tosfos DH 've'Od').
What does the last statement mean?

(b) What does this Beraisa prove?

(c) On whom does it pose a Kashya?

(d) To refute this Kashya, we establish the Beraisa when the majority of the blood was from the Chatas.
How much blood does he then place above the Chut ha'Sikra?

(a) What is now the problem with the Seifa of the Beraisa 've'ha'Tachtonim Alu Lo'?

(b) What do we mean when we answer 'le'Shem Shirayim'?

(c) The Beraisa continues 'Nasan le'Matah ve'Lo Nimlach (without asking advice), Rebbi Eliezer Omer Yachzor ve'Yiten Lema'alah ... '.
What would the Kohen have been told to do, had he asked?

(d) The Rabbanan disagree with Rebbi Eliezer. According to them, the remainder of the blood must be poured into the Amah.
Why is that? What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(a) What Kashya does this Beraisa pose on Rav Ashi?

(b) How do we answer it?

(c) How will we then explain the Seifa 've'ha'Tachtonim Alu Lo'?

(a) The Beraisa continues 'Nasnan Lema'alah ... Eilu va'Eilu Modim she'Yachzor Veyiten Lematah'.
On what grounds do the Rabbanan (who rule in the previous case 'Yishafech le'Amah') agree with Rebbi Eliezer here?

(b) Here too, according to Rav Ashi, we establish the case where the majority of the blood was from the Chatas ... .
Which Korban is Kasher, according to ...

  1. ... Rebbi Eliezer?
  2. ... the Rabbanan?
(c) How do we then explain the Seifa 'Eilu va'Eilu Alu Lo'?
(a) We learned in our Mishnah 'ha'Nitnin be'Matanah Achas she'Nis'arvu be'Matanah Achas, Yinasnu be'Matanah Achas ... Matan Arba be'Matan Arba, Yinasnu be'Matan Arba'.
How do we know that Rebbi Eliezer agrees with these rulings?

(b) How will Rav Ashi, who holds 'Ein Bilah' (according to Rebbi Eliezer) explain ...

  1. ... the Reisha?
  2. ... the Seifa?
(c) We ask the same Kashya on Rav Ashi from the Seifa 'Matan Arba be'Matan Achas, Rebbi Eliezer Omer Yinasnu be'Matan Arba'. We suggest that maybe here too, the Mishnah speaks 'be'Nis'arev be'Achas'.
What exactly, do we mean by that?

(d) On what grounds do we reject that suggestion?

Answers to questions

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